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ARCHIVED: Steampunk Worlds - Map Creation Thread

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Steampunk Scenario' started by Balthasar, May 8, 2008.

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  1. Balthasar

    Balthasar Wise Man

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    Regarding the map: would the Scenario group be interested in a map like this? I can describe it here in greater detail, if you'd like.
     
  2. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    I like! :thumbsup:
     
  3. Blue Monkey

    Blue Monkey Archon Without Portfolio

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    I like it a lot. The idea of a crescent moon is nice. Very Meliés!

    I hate to suggest what would basically be a restart to your work, but how about this:



    The proportions don't have to be the same. One advantage is that travel between the planets is then possible. Maybe the underworld could have a roundish bulge in the middle with larger "caverns" for Agartha. Venus I imagine to be very humid & full of jungles. Also lots & lots of seas. To distinguish Pellucidar, give it greater variety of terrain.
     
  4. Balthasar

    Balthasar Wise Man

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    And very victorian. I was looking for a way to keep it from just being bands of terrain, and this idea presented itself. I even made a backstory, that the tribes of the moon could only live within the small "terminus" band where they wouldn't get either the full sun or total dark. But really, I just wanted to do a man in the moon.

    Every terrain on the map is different. Here are some closer screen shots:

    Mars
    Spoiler :



    The Moon:

    Spoiler :



    Atlantis:

    Spoiler :



    And Pellucidar:

    Spoiler :



    Mars features terrain and cities from Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri that I found online. I made the mountains of Mars and the Moon myself. The moon's irrigation is made from a Sim City set. Pellucidar isn't finished yet, but features prehistoric trees to go with the Dinosaurs. The Maps of Pellucidar and Barsoom are from the Barsoom Glossary.

    Blue Monkey, I considered the idea of including Venus, but frankly, we're out of terrain on this one, and besides this took me better than two weeks to make, and I have to get on to making Asian trees for a friend once I get the bugs out of this one.

    One more thing: I've envisioned that each layer would have two competing civs: Mars has Orovars and Tharks, The Moon has Selenites and Ugas. England has the English and Scots, the Underworld has Atlanteans (Atlantans?) and an underground race. Finally, Pellucidar has the Sagoths and the Mahars (Dinosaurs, Great Apes, Sabertooth tigers, etc). 10 civs on a 160 x 350 map.
     
  5. Blue Monkey

    Blue Monkey Archon Without Portfolio

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    This map deserves its own thread within the SteamPunk Scenario forum. If I understood Flamand & embryodead properly, you had to hexedit each individual tile where you wanted the "peculiar" terrain. I once asked Plotinus to create a new thread out of a section of another, so I know it would be possible to move the posts already made.

    As far as the underground race - how about Bulwer-Lytton's Vril or else Agartha (which could use many of the interesting Asian units available).

    Venus would be possible, using a mix of the terrains you've already made. But I understand your reluctance to rebuild such a gem as you've created. On the subject of Venus: Burroughs made a series about Amtor to complement his Barsoom. Maps are available for it, as well.
     
  6. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    Wow! It looks amazing close-up!
     
  7. Balthasar

    Balthasar Wise Man

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    That would, in my opinion, be entirely up to King Arthur. This is his scenario group and he makes the call. As of yet, we haven't heard if he even likes this map, or if I've just screwed up weeks of his own work. I would, of course be pleased to have anyone work on this as a scenario or sub-scenario, and will appreciate input from everyone. It seems to me that once the tech tree and units are established, it could be applied to many adventures.

    Actually I ended up not doing that. I need to learn more about that process before actually trying it. I did this all with existing terrain, modifying the pcx's as needed.

    I think the Vril are perfect for what I had in mind, as they would be in the same culture group as the Atlanteans. Great suggestion.

    I was aware of Amtor before I began, but as I said, couldn't see how I could do it justice with the terrain I had to work with. Of course there's always a possibility of doing Amtor in the future.
     
  8. Blue Monkey

    Blue Monkey Archon Without Portfolio

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    I had been wrestling with how to make a "Lost Worlds" map. The Hollow Earth, but also Lemuria, Kong Island, & other exotic places that could be fit into a SteamPunk mod. Your map got me sweating with creative excitement. If you won't feel plagiarized, when I get time (months from now, probably) I'd like to riff on some of your ideas (like the crescent moon) & make my own stab at making a map along the lines of the diagram I posted above. I was already thinking of going in a slightly different direction with the terrain - Rhye's Underworld Terrain, for example, with Tsuga's additions (if they can be recovered).
     
  9. Balthasar

    Balthasar Wise Man

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    Thank you Virote. Here's more:

    England
    Spoiler :



    Scotland

    Spoiler :



    Using Varwnos' English cities of course. I'm torn whether to connect the English and Scottish cities by road and rail, or to leave that for the player to do.

    Blue Monkey, I always say that everyone is welcome to mod my work beyond recognition if they'd like. That's why I post it here. As far as posting this, it will be a few days yet before I have the initial bugs out.
    Then I'll post it sans units, tech tree or anything other than terrain modifications. The ball will then be in everyone else's court (not that I don't have alot of suggestions. . . ) Let me know if you find Tsunga's stuff.
     
  10. Blue Monkey

    Blue Monkey Archon Without Portfolio

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    I think I've got the mushrooms. I also PMed and posted a request in the thread in case someone else has them.
     
  11. Balthasar

    Balthasar Wise Man

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    Ok, last screenshots of the map showing a Vril city and Vril resource, and Asteroid Field.

    Vril:

    Spoiler :


    Asteroids:

    Spoiler :



    Tsuga's (not Tsunga - my bad) mushrooms would be a resource like the Vril, I would think.. .
     
  12. KingArthur

    KingArthur Searching for the Holy Grail

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    Balthasar, just got your PM and decided to drop by before turning in for the night. Now looks like I will be kept awake all night jotting down ideas that will pop into my head from your inspirational work.

    I've got to say that the moon terrain is very striking (beautiful).The concept overall is very imaginative and could make for a really original scenario.

    How did you get so many looks from a limited terrain set?

    Some suggestions
    I like Blue's idea of including different planets covering the corners of the map but don't rework the map if it's too tricky. If you do go for that then Pellucidar and the Underground should be sealed off from outer space though by impassable land terrain so that you can only get there via Earth.

    I would also suggest that England and Scotland be replaced by a representation of the World so we can incorporate more competing civs there (Nation States and Natives). It needn't be too large as 3 civs at least would be all that's needed: Europeans, Indiginous Tribes and Ancient Powers (Siam, China, India etc). Or alternatively bring in The Secret Evil Society from the original Steampunk mod idea.

    I'm thinking a bit about the mechanics of the map in terms of gameplay. Obviously travel between the regions will be restricted to water-going transportation - I take it you use coast,sea and ocean tiles? If so travel can easily be separated by flagging units as Sink in Sea or Sink in Ocean. An initial plan would be that Travel Between Earth and the Moon & Mars is Oceanic Travel via spacecraft units. Travel Between Earth and Underworld (Sea Travel via submarine or tunneling machine). Underground and Pellucidar are contiguous regions but involve normal "water" travel.

    The only downside is that one must come before the other i.e. Sea therefore we get contact between Earth and the Underworld before contact with outer space. This seems logical though. Also, any ocean going vessel will be able to travel between regions separated by sea - guess this is acceptable since ocean going craft are deemed to be more advanced. This is really exciting.

    As for civs I like your suggestions and BM's but you should also include Xexots (akin to one of Earth's Bronze Age cultures) and Korsars (Corsairs/Pirates) in the Lost World.

    If you're all in favour I can start thinking about designing some tech trees for this scenario and planning out unit lines etc. I think each culture group (region) should have specific tech trees for maximum flavour and replay factor.
     
  13. KingArthur

    KingArthur Searching for the Holy Grail

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    Found it on my backup device.

    I have Rhye's original files and another file called 'shroom crops' (mushroom irrigation). Just whistle if you need them.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Blue Monkey

    Blue Monkey Archon Without Portfolio

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    with Balthasar's "go-ahead" I've been working out ideas for the "planets" version of a "lost worlds" map. This is so rough I wouldn't even call it a "proof of concept" yet. The posted image is 50% scale of what I'm actually working with.
    thumbnail


    The outliers are Barsoom, Luna, Amtor, & Mongo (for lack of another inspiration). On Earth the ellipse represents the underworld portion of the map & the bottom is Pellucidar. Proportions aren't finalized yet. The ellipse will probably get shifted south,; shrinking Pellucidar & leaving more room for the "surface" map. I'm also considering enlarging the planets relative to earth. But I want the Earth civilizations to predominate. It seems like the planets will have 1-2 civs each, so their available settlement area ought to be about the same as what 1-2 Earth civs would have access to.

    Thanks, KA, for reminding me that Pellucidar is completely enclosed - sparking an idea for the Earth's surface. I envision a sort of world ocean encircling the outside of the lower hemisphere. The onion layer being roughly - a 1 - 2 tile band of sea + 1 tile of coast + impassable layer. There can be small valleys & bays with more varied terrain - room for Kong Island or Lemuria, for example.

    My plan for dealing with aetheric flight is to use the Space + Seas LM solution outlined by Flamand & embryodead. If I can cope with embryodead's method, there will be additional LM terrains to give the planets their own unique look, even though terrain values may be fairly standard.
    While I envision the overall map to approach the maximum (362 x 362) I think it won't be too unwieldy. Earth's water bodies can be limited to coast/sea - then the planets won't be linkable by harbors. Hopefully that will avoid the "searching for trade routes" lag time. & ships that try to fly will fall off the edge of the earth & disappear :)lol:). Later in the tech tree there can be "spaceports".

    I hope some others, like Hikaro, will comment on this as a direction to move the mod towards.

    I really think the maps ought to have their own thread. King Arthur can contact one of the mods, like Plotinus, about the possibility of shifting the relevant posts.

    EDIT: posted updated image to show Pellucidar. Whole underworld region (brown) has been shifted south as I discussed above. Magenta shows South Pole entrance to Hollow Earth. Green blob is possible location (but not shape) of Agartha.
     
  15. Virote_Considon

    Virote_Considon The Great Dictator

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    This is all really great! :goodjob:

    I also think I know how Balthasar has made the terrain look completely different for each area- with a little bit of trickery, and a lot of (I asume ;)) pain-in-the-arse c'n'p work, so, for example, the tundra->coast files will all show space terrain, whereas the grassland->coast will retain the original coast look! (Which I would never have the patience to do :))
     
  16. KingArthur

    KingArthur Searching for the Holy Grail

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    This is our spot dedicated to map creation.

    Post map ideas, images, game graphics (eg. terrain), works in progress etc here.
     
  17. KingArthur

    KingArthur Searching for the Holy Grail

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    Mongo is as good a Planet X as anything and any mod is certainly improved by featuring camp aliens :D

    I'm glad you will make it 362x362. 2 civs at least per region to make things competitive before you can travel to other regions.

    I've PMd Sir Plot to ask him to move all map related posts to the new Map Creation Thread.

    BM- did you miss the Tsuga graphics I uploaded on post 25? - 0 views since I posted them.

    Cheers
     
  18. Balthasar

    Balthasar Wise Man

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    I've finally posted the map here.

    Virote, you're right. And it is a pain in the ass, but it comes out pretty.
     
  19. Moosezilla

    Moosezilla Grognard Warlord

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    "I approve!" -Ming
     
  20. Blue Monkey

    Blue Monkey Archon Without Portfolio

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    Making a usable world map that fits into this schema is pretty mind bending.




    Manipulations from basic projection:
    • North Polar Sea & North Atlantic distorted to flatten map
    • Shrank Africa & South America
    • South America, Africa, & Australasia are rotated relative to the central regions
    • Europe is enlarged - I'm tempted to enlarge England even further, & maybe Japan

    What I like about it -
    • Industrial nations remain relatively close
    • Relative sizes reflect Victorian mind-set & relative world power
    • Expanded Atlantic/Pacific space allows for "lost islands"


    But I'm not happy with it. Hopefully someone will suggest something ripping good. Preferably with a sketch.
     
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