Arda Mod Preview - last attempt to bring this Mod back up and running!

[Sengir]

I've started on the featurelist:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=7798658

 

[Elda King]

I'm glad someone will pick the mod up! I really wish you good luck, and will give you all the support I can (unfortunately, not much right now...).

As I have told on another topic, my PC is broken - so, until it's fixed, I'm without Civ 4 and without any of my files. There were older versions of the mod, some info (including quotes from the books for every tech, the image of the full tech tree, etc), and some 2d art... Thought I can look at the forum ocasionally, I can't mod for now (and 2 weeks from now I'll start college and perhaps work, so I likely won't have plenty of time until July). Anyway, when I get my pc back you may count on my occasional help and feedback...

If you overcame one of our CTD you're a much better modder than I am (we had plenty of them, and allways had to start over). I didn't even knew where to look for them... Anyway, if you have any tech file, I may assure you it's working; it was the only file edited by one person only, and I tested it separated from all the rest to make sure it was fine.

About making the mod from FFH2, it was a recent idea. We didn't actually discussed it deeply, and don't know what we would take and what wouldn't fit. I think it's great, it has many mechanics we could use: heroes, unique resources, world "spells" for civs, etc, etc, etc.

 

[Sengir]

Thanks for your reaction. I kinda got swamped in work the moment I wanted to start, but I should have a couple of spare hours coming weekend to mod a bit and see if I can get anything done.

 

[Berenthor]

Hi, I really like the ideas. I started playing FFH2 a couple of months ago and I really got into the fantasy theme . Now LOTR would be even better. I did some modding myself, mostly for myself and I have to finish still a religion mod for BtS but if you want I can give you a hand and together we can try to put this mod back on the map. PM me if you're interested. Are you planning to use FFH2 as a base? I think that would be the best idea.

 

[Berenthor]

Small update on FFH2 as base: it has a lot of fantasy features we really would want to use in LOTR. I think it would be quite okay to use this as a base and familiarize during working on it. It is not that different. Starting with changing the civs is the best way to start anyway. We have to come up with some structure to make it because doing everything at the same time won't work. The features for FFH2 are also quite well documented on their part of the forum so that should help.

EDIT: another thing that is nice is the fact that races exist in FFH2. We could use the same promotions there and you can set the race promotion per civilization (elf civs would get the elves promotion for every unit they produce).

 

[Berenthor]

Another update: I think to limit the amount of work to start with and just get this up and running we need to limit the starting ambitions. I really would like to start on this, but I think it is wise to wait for a respons here from the people who reinitiated this thread in the last couple of days. A good list of civs to start with would be three of each race:

• Elves
  • Noldor
  • Teleri
  • Sindar
• Good Men
  • Rohirrim
  • Numenorean
  • Edain (beren, beorl, etc)
• Evil Men
  • Haradrim
  • Easterling
  • Dunlending (men of saruman, evil men in the western part of middle earth)
• Shadow
  • Mordor
  • Angmar
  • Angband??
  • Isengard??
• Dwarves
  • Longbeard (Durin)
  • Firebeard??
  • Ironfists??

 

[xmen510]

Take a look at the feature list thread. It is new and some discussions were had there. Apparently Sengir is quite busy at the moment. He is also the only modder curretnly working on this at the moment I believe. I'm just the idea man.

 

[Berenthor]

Yeah I saw that. I just thought it was the previous list. I'll post this suggestion there as well. Do you know if he actually started it, because otherwise I will start it. I really think FFH2 is the best base and will give us the best results in the end. I think I know enough about it to be able to use FFH2 as a base. I really would like to stress the point of using this as a base because it will make our lives a lot easier. Also I like to say I would like to help with the coding. I know enough to be able to do some of the stuff.

 

[Sengir]

Busy yes, without a working laptop-battery as well . Anyway, tt has been replaced and my other projects should leave me with a fair amount of spare time the coming days, so I can continue working on the mod. I'm still not sure on using FFH as a base, but maybe I should just play a game in the mod to make up my mind. It all depends on what we want to have in the mod, not only what we want in for now, but how people think the ideal Arda-mod would look like (hey, we gotta have some goal don't we). The fact that FFH includes it doesn't mean however that it is necessary to use FFH as base (though it something to consider). Another point is how many features won't be used and have to be stripped away, which can range from easy to impossible, depending on how integrated it is with the rest of FFH.

I would like to make clear that I'm not opposed to FFH as a base, but I'll have to see it for myself first (will try to play a game tonight).


Also, Berenthor: Welcome to the team

 

[Berenthor]

To address some of your points on FFH2:

• Hero system is in there
• Equipment is there
• The armagedon counter is great and we could use as influence of the shadow
• Features like building improvements in forest (without chopping) is there, great for elf races
• New features are mostly xml tags which give us the option of using them but is not neccessary
• Because FFH2 is fantasy, we can mod in an iterative way: first the civs with standard elf, dwarf, etc citysets and unitart. This will make development time a lot shorter and easier while keeping the flexebility
• Disabling options is possible
• A system for spells is there. This allows us to easily use it for for example "fear" for the nazgul or magic for elves etc.
• The improvements are well documented

I agree that you should first take a look at it yourself to see what you think. I personnally think it will save us a lot of headache and redoing stuff that has been done. I do however recommend choosing as fast as possible because due to the extra xml techs, going from BtS standard to FFH2 is not as easy. However if we do it now immediatly, only the tech tree has to be redone or at least porting which is quite doable I think (tech tree only has 1 extra xml tag so that should be very easy (search replace ).

Another small question: who is involved now in this mod and what would be the best way to communicate more effectively than here?

Here is the link to the modders guide:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=238077

 

[Sengir]

Some thoughts:

The armagedon counter is great and we could use as influence of the shadow

Can the counter go down as well? That would be a very nice thing to have.

New features are mostly xml tags which give us the option of using them but is not neccessary
Disabling options is possible
The improvements are well documented

This really important, as it really minimizes the risk of bugs.

As for picking BtS or FFH: Yes that choice should be made as soon as possible, no need in trying to convert halfway. (That's why I mentioned not only considering features we want now, but also features we might want later).

Another small question: who is involved now in this mod and what would be the best way to communicate more effectively than here?

I can see whether I can dig up my old msn-account, don't know if it still works. I've got skype as well, or could whip up some chatpogram on a server somewhere. Realtime communication is really nice, but is only usefull if the people involved can be online at the same time, so anybody still involved in this mod, please raise your hand and tell us what timezone you live in. I'm in GMT+1 (the Netherlands for those interested.)



Also about the link you posted: that's seriously nice of them.

 

[Berenthor]

Raise hand . I'm also in GMT+1 (Netherlands) so that's easy.

The counter can go down as well. Certain events/actions raise it, others lower it. These can as far as I can determine be set. Yeah I also have to see if my msn or gmail account is still working(I think gtalk also works but I don't know). Skype I can also make an account if neccessary. I was also very positively surprised about the documentation, it is really helpfull.

 

[Sengir]

Yeah, I noticed that.

I'm going to start FFH in about a minute or so (once it has finished installing), so we'll know soon enough whether I like it or not

 

[xmen510]

I would agree that using FFH as a base would indeed save a lot of time. Considering how rare magic actually is in LOTR it would need to be modified quite a bit to suite the theme.

At the moment Berenthor, there seems to be Sengir, Sifaus, you and myself. Only two or three of these people actually know how to mod however (I cannot). If Elda and/or thomas become available I am sure they would at least advise.

 

[Sengir]

I've managed to play 1 hour, before the laptop decided to quit (overheating problem). I've read the civilopedia entries for what's new in FFH and must say I'm impressed with it. Still no clue as to how things actually work in play I hope I'll be able to play on the other comp in the next couple of days (my wife needs it today to finalize some stuff for upcoming exams), so that I can comment a bit more about FFH.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

In addition to what Berenthor mentioned, Every plot In FFH has a "plot counter" which is variable, and which is used to determine what stage the terrain is (normal or Hell)
This, also, could be used to represent the influence of the shadow over the terrain itself...

 

[Sengir]

I read about the hell terrain in the civilopedia. I was wondering whether it was possible to transform it back (which would require serious effort) but if it's a counter, then it should not be too hard to do.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

Yes. The in game spell is sanctify.

 

[Berenthor]

In addition to what Berenthor mentioned, Every plot In FFH has a "plot counter" which is variable, and which is used to determine what stage the terrain is (normal or Hell)
This, also, could be used to represent the influence of the shadow over the terrain itself...

I didn't know that, that's great. Combined with the armagedon counter, this could really work out well. I know how to mod (haven't done SDK yet, but I know how to program so that shouldn't be a problem) so that should give us a third person. If we are going to tackle this problem we should come up with a not to extensive list of things we want for a first version. Maybe only a shorter list of civs (hence my smaller list I posted earlier) using the standard unit and city sets of FFH2 and maybe one UU and UB. We should try to do this in small iterations and not all at once, otherwise you keep refining before even a first version comes out.

As for the magic: I think the system can be used to represent certain things (fear the nazgul spread, maybe some elven magic, maybe some heroes). Spells as they are in FFH2 don't only represent magic but also for example encouragement by powerfull leaders or those kind of thinks. Personnally I feel the system is still very usefull, even without having buildable mages. Also the world spells are a very cool concept that we might be able to use (or disregard in the first stage, just to get it running. It can be disabled by not assigning a world spell to a civ). Just my 2 cents. I really feel anxious to start now...

 

[Sifaus]

Yes. The in game spell is sanctify.

Here is my idea; "Ash Terrain" spread via culture of "Shadow". But it is harder to get back real terrain, a little change to changing via other civs culture, but, there is another way. For a 3x3 terrain, a spell of workers that will take 10 turns to cast. And there is a little (%10 maybe) change to a "new forest".

I dont know if can be implementable