Arda Mod Preview - last attempt to bring this Mod back up and running!

[Sengir]

While I agree with you on starting with a smaller civ list, I would like to have a longer list for the ones we want to have eventually, so that we won't have to come back and edit the civs from the short list to make sure the civs don't overlap to much (Extreme example: Civ Elves on short list, Civs Noldor, Teleri, Sindar, etc. on long list > would mean rework Elves to Noldor and add the others. Better to just have Noldor on the shortlist instead of elves). So my proposal is to make a long list first, then pick a couple of civs from that list for the first version. I agree with keeping the number of UU's low, maybe even no UU's except for the shadow.

The magic system (I've only read about it, no experience) would have to be altered somewhat because I don't like the idea of mana nodes in Middle-Earth. But as it is possible to tie the nodes to a palace or (national) wonder, it should be possible to simply rename them and reduce the nodes available on the map. The spells themselves (I've only read a few) look like they can be adapted to a lot of things.

 

[Sifaus]

Spells can be different from ffh, only can isitari cast "real" spells and some of ring bearers... There is no need ffh's mana system, they can be basic "promotions" without nodes and mana

 

[Sengir]

Here is my idea; "Ash Terrain" spread via culture of "Shadow". But it is harder to get back real terrain, a little change to changing via other civs culture, but, there is another way. For a 3x3 terrain, a spell of workers that will take 10 turns to cast. And there is a little (%10 maybe) change to a "new forest".

I dont know if can be implementable

As far as I understand the spreading of Hell/Ash terrain via culture of the Shadow is easy with FFH (it's what happens until armageddon counter reaches 25, afterwards it's also in neutral territory).

As for the rest, that should be possible, as there allready is a spell that does change it back apparently, so that could be altered, and the small chance of changing back (not sure whether I agree with you on that, I think it should require some effort to get rid of it), can probably be done with events. (or whatever function is used to turn it into hellterrain in the first place)

 

[Sengir]

Spells can be different from ffh, only can isitari cast "real" spells and some of ring bearers... There is no need ffh's mana system, they can be basic "promotions" without nodes and mana

Ah, of course. Didn't make the connection that they were based on promotions. That makes things a lot easier (I think/hope)

 

[Sifaus]

As far as I understand the spreading of Hell/Ash terrain via culture of the Shadow is easy with FFH (it's what happens until armageddon counter reaches 25, afterwards it's also in neutral territory).

As for the rest, that should be possible, as there allready is a spell that does change it back apparently, so that could be altered, and the small chance of changing back (not sure whether I agree with you on that, I think it should require some effort to get rid of it), can probably be done with events. (or whatever function is used to turn it into hellterrain in the first place)

I think it musnt be a "adept" spell, it must be worker action (or worker spell ). By the way, will be any mage buildings, mages ect..? I think it will be so un-Middle Earthish

Sorry for bad english

 

[Sengir]

Worker spell sounds good. And mage buildings and mages will be dropped. (I think I can safely say that )

 

[Sifaus]

Worker spell sounds good. And mage buildings and mages will be dropped. (I think I can safely say that )

 

[Berenthor]

Mana nodes should in total be dropped I think, and maybe even the some of the different kinds of magic (although this can be used to differentiate several kinds of magic: istari, elven, shadow, valar, etc). I agree that mages and mage buildings should be completely removed. Maybe some hero units with magic like the istari (but not normal units) and some other special units. The system of divine magic could partially be kept (inquisition is currently a spell) and the divine magic users are the only units in game with healing promotions (is not a normal promotion). This I think could partially be kept, although I'm not completely sure how to structure the religions either to be honest. Hell/Ash terrain sounds okay although I think we should see if we can change the graphics. The flames on the terrain should go, since it doesn't really fit. The ash terrain would be great (especially for mordor, angband, angmar). I totally agree about the civ list. We should have that complete and than pick some.

 

[Sengir]

I managed to play FFH a bit today and must say it would be pretty stupid not to use as a base. A lot of things tailor nicely to things we want and everytime I saw an event, I thought, yeah, I could see how we could use that. Only problem of FFH is that the techtree is so wide, I had no idea where to start. Also: those civs are pretty agressive, I got two DoW before turn 100, and even lost 2 cities (before I took them back and wiped the offenders of the face of the earth).

All in all, I think FFH should be the base and I should make notes next time I play, as I can't remember everything (do remember a Dragon showing up: that's going to make a nice little Smaug )

 

[Berenthor]

Hahaha Smaug was also the first thing I thought about . It is an event but it only happens when the barbarians "build" it. It is a world unit only buildable by the barbarians. I especially like the fact that you receive a "wonder" if you defeat him (acherons hoard I think or something like that). May I ask what level you played on (and what you play normally?) because I didn't have that much trouble. Also what civ did you play? I agree, the TT is very extensive, but set up in a very different way from normal (economic things up top, magic at the bottom, etc.). Takes some getting used to. I'm glad we can agree on using this as a base .

 

[Sengir]

I played on Noble, normally Prince/Monarch. Losing the cities was caused by me messing up any resemblance of a tech path. I had only been able to build horsemen for three turns when they attacked my poor two bloodpets per city with stacks of five. They never threatened my capital however, which was happily building horseman after horseman to make sure I got back what was rightfully mine (namely: everything they had).

 

[Berenthor]

Hahaha sounds like a good game. I first read the manual with its tips so I actually knew a little what to expect. You played the Calabim right (vampires)? They are pretty cool, especially when you have vampires who can suck a city dry to gain XP. If you have complete farming cities you produce back very fast the population you feast upon

 

[Elda King]

I don't like the idea of Armageddon counter in Arda Mod, because in it the evil is embodied in a single civ (or two, whatever). In all ages, the Shadow grew too powerful to be faced by any people in ME; in the first, they had to call the Valar, in the Second they had to cut the ring off, and in the third they had to destroy the ring. However, it was because the military power of that civ was overwhelming! It would be lame to have a very high armageddon counter if the Shadow was a poor, weak civ.
The original idea was to make The Shadow a very powerful civ in raw military (thought not unbeatable), but weak in other aspects (culture, growth). If it grew too powerful to be defeated by force of arms, well, look for another victory condition or a worldwide military alliance.

 

[Sengir]

The point of the armageddon counter wasn't the counter itself, but to show the working of hell terrain. I agree that the count isn't necessary in Arda, or even appropriate.

 

[T_F]

You can have hell (or rather Mordor) terrain without having it spread everywhere. I do think you'll need some sort of hellish terrain for north-western Mordor though (but don't forget the rest of it was fairly usable).

 

[xmen510]

The Terrain should perhaps only spread with the Shadow's Cultural borders. That would probably be easiest. Then perhaps a 1 point decrease in plot grade 1 plot outside of the Border (if that is possible).

 

[Berenthor]

I think currently in FFH2 hell terrain spreads only in evil borders during low armageddon counter and when the counter goes up, starts to spread through neutral lands. It never enters good lands I think. But maybe we can limit it to only the shadows own borders, we would have to check.

 

[T_F]

Just limit it to Shadow definitely. Maybe make some sorta Projects or special events that allow it to spread outside to a specific area (like Brown Lands) or add a lot all at once (like Anfauglith).

 

[Sengir]

That's a good idea T_F. Limit it to the Shadow lands, except for certain specific cases. Would be good ideas for Shadow projects or events (though the events would be rare, limited to one tile and need a hell/ash-terrain adjacent, kind of like a forestspread).