Are Converted Natives rather useless?

[Falk]

I'm playing a game as Samuel de Champlain at the moment and I am wondering what I am supposed to do with all the converted natives I get. They can't do much, you can not train them in native villages, they can only produce raw materials effectively, you can only educate them to take up professions that are present in the given city and they are more limited in what they can become than "normal" settlers.

I understand that such changes make sense fluff-wise, i.e. natives trained in native villages indeed don't make much sense. However, gameplay-wise these same changes seem awful decisions to me.

So I wonder - are converted natives as useless as I think they are or is there some way to put them to good use. Is there a viable strategy based on the missionary mechanic?

 

[Dale]

I use my CN's to replace non-expert fishermen/farmers in my cities as they produce more. Thus I end up freeing up a lot of FC's and other colonists for other types of training. CN's are also good as ore miners if you've been unlucky on the docks.

Think replacement units as opposed to stand-alone units.

 

[Wheldrake]

They are good as harvesters, while you're waiting to get the right specialists to properly equip your cities. Then, when you don't need them as harvesters any more, you pop them in your schools, and they can become anything you want - highly versatile, IMHO.

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

 

[Falk]

Think replacement units as opposed to stand-alone units.

I got way too many converted natives to do this. It's viable if you just get a few natives, but if you try to base your strategy on it, it doesn't work. Right now I must start deleting all new natives because I have no work for them.

Then, when you don't need them as harvesters any more, you pop them in your schools, and they can become anything you want - highly versatile, IMHO.

If it was possible to make them become anything I want, it'd be fine. But as limited as educating natives is right now, this is no option imho.

 

[Wheldrake]

I got way too many converted natives to do this. It's viable if you just get a few natives, but if you try to base your strategy on it, it doesn't work. Right now I must start deleting all new natives because I have no work for them.

Build a few extra cities! Those converted natives can harvest goods and ship them to your factory cities, or else just harvest food to grow your population.

If it was possible to make them become anything I want, it'd be fine. But as limited as educating natives is right now, this is no option imho.

I don't get this. If you send converted natives to a city with a school, college or university you can train them to be any specialty that is present in that city. You can even train them as veteran soldiers, if you set one veteran soldier to work in the city (and if that city has at least a college), instead of just being garrisoned there. There are no "limits" to educating natives. They learn *slightly* more slowly than normal colonists, but not noticeably so once you have a college or university there.

Please explain how educating natives is "limited".

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

 

[Dale]

Yeah I'm confused by the "limited" education of CN's? They can learn the same professions as FC's.

And seriously dude, make some food cities. Pure harvesting with the CN's and you'll get a new FC every turn with 2 food resources.

 

[Falk]

any specialty that is present in that city

Well, yes, that's the problem. I have far more converted natives than I have specialists in my cities and I can't change this because I get far more natives than specialist immigrants. FCs can at least be trained in native villages, so you can get the experts you need and you can do that quickly. I basically have waiting lists for my schools, because there are so many natives.
You know, FCs can not only be trained in native villages, they can also take up more professions (e.g. missionary) and they are more versatile non-educated producers.
Natives are basically good to get food production going, but that's it. Build one or two missions and you're fine.

My idea was to base a strategy on missions, i.e. acquire new colonists mainly through missions. This doesn't seem to be viable.

 

[Wheldrake]

If you found new cities, with loads of converted natives producing food, they will pump out ordinary colonists, which can then be trained in native villages as specialists.

If you have a city with a lumberjack and a carpenter and a school, you can soon fill all those extra cities with their own lumberjack and carpenter... all by educating converted natives. Same for any other specialist profession.

I just don't get this idea where Falk says he feels the need to simply disband excess natives. The only situation where I can imagine that is if I were trying to play with a very small number of cities. Even then, I would just have those "excess" natives wait around until a spot opened up in a school.

And if your schools are taking too long to educate colonists, you need to upgrade them, at least to colleges. New recruits start coming out pretty fast! But it does also mean you need a very robust economy, in order to have the cash to pay for all that education.

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

 

[Falk]

I just don't get this idea where Falk says he feels the need to simply disband excess natives. The only situation where I can imagine that is if I were trying to play with a very small number of cities. Even then, I would just have those "excess" natives wait around until a spot opened up in a school.

Well, yeah, I do not really have to delete them, it's more like I have no work for them and instead of just having them sit around I can as well delete them.
Basically, if I do what you suggest and use natives to farm and fish this is exactly what happens: I get free colonists in addition to all the natives I still get and of course those FCs are much easier to use (i.e. more versatile), so I again have superfluous natives. You got to stop somewhere, you can't grow your colony endlessly.

However, I'm not saying that my opinion is the absolute truth. I'm not a Col expert, let alone an AoD expert, so I'll see if I can make better use of natives, maybe by focusing more on schools. Right now I just feel that any other strategy, that maybe uses converted natives only as a supllement is better than a strat based on those natives.

 

[Wheldrake]

...so I'll see if I can make better use of natives, maybe by focusing more on schools.

That's the key, IMHO. If you've got 2-3 schools at the "college" or "university" level, for a colony of, say, 8-10 cities, you should have no problem converting all your native colonists into more useful specialists, or into veteran soldiers and dragoons. You'll still need to purchase at least one of each specialist type in Europe, or find training for the specialist harvesters in native villages, but as soon as you have one of a given type you can train more in schools.

Cheers, --- Wheldrake

 

[Aerion]

One would think that a converted native would be BETTER than a free colonist at some things. If indians are training farmers/planters then, logically, a converted native should be AT LEAST as good as a free colonist at those tasks - arguably better. Somewhere between a specialist and a basic colonist. Tradesmen, would be a different story, of course and be at a disadvantage at those tasks.

 

[kaibayashi]

One would think that a converted native would be BETTER than a free colonist at some things. If indians are training farmers/planters then, logically, a converted native should be AT LEAST as good as a free colonist at those tasks - arguably better. Somewhere between a specialist and a basic colonist. Tradesmen, would be a different story, of course and be at a disadvantage at those tasks.

They are, they get +1 all harvesting professions

 

[Chibiabos]

CNs are great for any resource harvesting ... farming, fishing, lumberjacks, ore and silver mining, tobacco/sugar/cotton harvesting. If nothing else, found a new city in grasslands/plains/island just for pumping out FCs.