Are F-15s all that bad?

America's UU, what do you think?

  • Yeah, I'll give it a chance.

    Votes: 17 22.1%
  • No way, roll on the Delta Force unit!

    Votes: 25 32.5%
  • Don't play America/don't care/don't know

    Votes: 35 45.5%

  • Total voters
    77
  • Poll closed .

Lab Monkey

Peace thru ultraviolence!
Joined
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Messages
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Location
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Everyone (including me) seems to regard the American UU as being rather useless. But is it?
It's bombing power is admittedly bad, but this is against a city. Airstrikes against land units would be much more deadly, and the late triggering of a GA would put America in the lead in, say, a race to build a spaceship (just as they are in real life), wheras all the other civs have likely been over and done with their GA ages ago.

Erm, this is just theoretical (I've never got past Industrial with America), but does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
 
The F-15 frickin' SUCKS!!!! It doesn't historically represent America as a civ. It should be the Minuteman of the Revolution! Replace the F-15!! (I wish I could post a smilie waving a protest sign here.)
 
Originally posted by Lab Monkey
the late triggering of a GA would put America in the lead in, say, a race to build a spaceship (just as they are in real life
I didn't see the american building spacecraft to AC yet....
and so far only the moon race was won,
we haven't seen the mars mission neither..... :D
(russia have many 1st just as the american, like the 1st satellite, animal, man, woman, space station, multi-module space station)

beside, both russia and america were using
german engineering design during the race.... :rolleyes:

I do feel the US should have a paratroop as their UU.
But the F15 will do fine....
 
Okay, so they only got to the moon (and that was probably faked), but let's face it, their late golden age is upon us, and the rest of the world is culture flipping in droves. When the McDonalds' flag is flying, you know that the yanks have conquered!

The Minutemen is a good idea, but it's only this century that they've become a real world player, and I think that counts as a true golden age. Not that the revolution is a small deal...
 
i think a better UU would be stealth bomber or maybe a special marine or paratrooper.
 
Only one problem I have with the F-15; it comes too late. By which time, I have won, more or less, and merely 'wrapping up'. :)
 
im considering a new UU for the americans. my idea would be a tank based upon the M4 Sherman. It would have the same stats as a regular tank but would cost 25% less shields to build. this would still accurately reflect a late industrial early modern golden age.

i find this much more historically accurate as well. although the M4 was not the match of the german tiger, panther or pzkw IV (although it matched up best against the pzkw IV and that is open to debate) america was able to field it in overwhelming numbers. the 25% discount would reflect the american industrial edge in the late industrial modern era.
 
Bombing in general sucks, from catapults to stealths, so I don't think there's much to get excited about with the American UU.
 
I have to admit I've played a few dozen games to their conclusion and I haven't even SEEN one.
 
Originally posted by Cerryl
Bombing in general sucks, from catapults to stealths, so I don't think there's much to get excited about with the American UU.

How did you fight in latest war without bombing units ??
I agree that catapult sucks but later artilery is extremely usefull !!

Regards
 
I voted no but definitely do not support the idea of the Delta Force Unit as a UU.

Having the F-15 as a UU represents one of the best examples of a design decision by someone who does not play the game.

The only times the F-15 comes into play is if you disable diplo, space race, and culture victory options and diliberately play on a lower difficulty level to make the game last as long as possible.

The F-15 comes too late for most "trying to win" strategies because I have either already won the game or already been trounced by that point in time.

Also, having a UU that depends of the really lame CIV3 aerial combat system to generate a Golden Age is almost as bad as making a bombard unit the UU for a civ and then disabling the unit so it can never kill anyone else.

When I get a GA for the Americans it is wonder based.

The only UU in the game that is truly almost as useless than the F-15 is the Man-O-war.
 
I use bombing to pillage square improvements if I can afford it, but I will build any multi movement attack unit before a bombing unit.



Originally posted by Mîtiu Ioan


How did you fight in latest war without bombing units ??
I agree that catapult sucks but later artilery is extremely usefull !!

Regards
 
Originally posted by Cerryl
I use bombing to pillage square improvements if I can afford it, but I will build any multi movement attack unit before a bombing unit.
And if you are subject to any war weariness, you will suffer the consequences.

War weariness is aggravated by losing units (according to current 'theory'). Bombardment units are well worth the production/maintenance costs, reducing the number of units you lose because your ground units are attacking weakened defenders.

In an offensive war, when you bomb terrain improvements you will just have to rebuild them yourself when you have taken the area. BTW, I do that myself, sometimes.
 
U dont use artillery man your crazy. Before the battle hit u can knock out the opponents roads and resources. Well im going to make a new uu for the americans. I like the sherman tank idea but i wonder if theres a way to make a unit like the privateers? I was thinking of adding mercenaires to the game.
 
Originally posted by Lab Monkey
Okay, so they only got to the moon (and that was probably faked), but let's face it, their late golden age is upon us, and the rest of the world is culture flipping in droves. When the McDonalds' flag is flying, you know that the yanks have conquered!

I would argue that the US has not achieved a culture domination as much as a corporate one, assuming that you can consider corporations to be a part of the American state.
 
True, but I never fight wars in a represenative Govt type if I can help it. Wars that are declared on you are easier to fight if you have to.

But in 200+ games, I find no use in bombing units with the exception of naval bombardment, it suits me just fine.

Originally posted by Jaybe

And if you are subject to any war weariness, you will suffer the consequences.

War weariness is aggravated by losing units (according to current 'theory'). Bombardment units are well worth the production/maintenance costs, reducing the number of units you lose because your ground units are attacking weakened defenders.

In an offensive war, when you bomb terrain improvements you will just have to rebuild them yourself when you have taken the area. BTW, I do that myself, sometimes.
 
I like the F-15, and I do feel it is representative of US history. It would be more perfect if the Americans could have two units, however, the F-15 and a historically accurate super carrier to ferry them around. Today's Nimitz class carriers carry 85 aircraft - that's far more than they paltry 4 of Civ III's carriers. Granted, the Nimitz class carriers don't carry F-15's in real life, but that's an innacuracy I think could be forgiven.

The only other units I've thought of for America were a nuke that you could use and still have everyone like you or a boomer - a virtually undetectable nuclear sub that could carry a good number of ICBMs and would scare (deter) the hell out of the enemy to the point they wouldn't dream of attacking you.

As for bombardment - I couldn't play without it. I normally end up with 60-100 artillery units and 20-30 bombers on a standard map.
 
I have never used the F-15 since I never played the Americans and i have also never encountered it since I always kill the Americans long before modern ages. But perhaps I should give it a try, might be fun to play US sometimes. :)
 
People, people! I cannot believe the most obvious choice hasn't been mentioned yet! The U.S.M.C. - that's right, the :ar15: Marines. The Few, The Proud, The Marines. If you're not from the USA I can understand, but for any natives it really should be obvious. Legendary, there is no other word.

Now, the stats, that's got me puzzled. My suggestion would never be approved, but it would be to give them a 50% bonus when making amphib. assaults. But oh well, I guess I could go with 9/6/1.
 
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