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Are fortresses broken?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by FM_Freyland, Jul 4, 2004.

  1. FM_Freyland

    FM_Freyland Vote with your wallets!

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    My understanding is that fortresses are supposed to provide a zone of control, which means enemy units have to stop when they try to pass the fortress, or at least the unit in the fortress gets a free attack (something along those lines). However, the Germans are reliving history and marching right past my (small) Marignot Line without even so much of a 'adieu'. What am I not getting, or are there more cracks in this game than in my defenses?

    Jonathan
     
  2. Durkz

    Durkz Offline

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    enemy units dont have to stop when they are passing the fortress but somtimes the defender attacks it but it only take about 1hp and they dont do it every time
     
  3. Reprisal

    Reprisal Warlord

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    I think Barricades give a zone of control, but I'm not certain. I haven't used them yet.
     
  4. FM_Freyland

    FM_Freyland Vote with your wallets!

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    Nope, its the fortress that is giving the ZoC. Maybe Durkz is right, and I have just been 'unlucky'.

    Jonathan
     
  5. watorrey

    watorrey Deity

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    It's the same idea as the coastal fortress. The only time you see it work is when you score a hit. For best results, have a strong offensive unit in them along with the defensive one.

    Barricades use up any remaining movement points when a unit enters one and it is not in thier territory. This is different from ZOC.
     
  6. Chieftess

    Chieftess Moderator Retired Moderator

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    Did a quick test -- you're just unlucky.

    19 swords out of 20 moved through - 6 of them were hit by one of the units in the fortress.

    Next turn, 13 moved though, and 2 were hit.

    Each time, the one on the SE side hit them, but not the NE.

    2nd run - 4 and 4 on turns 1 and 2.

    BTW, which side of the AI was your unit on when it seemed to fail?

    You could probably say it's a 40% chance of success, though this is a VERY rough estimate.
     
  7. warpstorm

    warpstorm Yumbo? Yumbo!

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    IIRC, it makes a check of the attack strength of the unit in the fortress vs the defense strength of the moving unit. If it is a miss it doesn't show anything.
     
  8. Jaybe

    Jaybe civus fanaticus Supporter

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    Chieftess, that is very interesting regarding units to the SE being hit -- since barbarians go on the warpath to units NW and SE direction.

    If I was in the habit of building forts, I would probably check to confirm whether units only go shot at in NW/SE directions.
     
  9. watorrey

    watorrey Deity

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    The SE thing could just be the game having to choose which fortress to show the animation in.
     
  10. FM_Freyland

    FM_Freyland Vote with your wallets!

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    Okay, one flaw I am seeing here is that I have only defensive units (ie, only '1' attack strength) in the fortress. However, I also had trebuchets in each as well. Should these have fired? Do they fall under the "if it misses nothing happens" rule?

    Thanks for so many replies.

    Jonathan
     
  11. watorrey

    watorrey Deity

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    I doubt a bombard unit recieves the ZOC ability from the fortress. It would work if the fortress were attacked, which is unlikely.
     
  12. Bretwalda

    Bretwalda Warlord

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    So does anyone have any idea how the ideal Maginot line looks like? It is packed with good defensive units for sure... Maybe some ZOC units inside (like cavalry) also helps? Flanking enemy units takes a roll once or once for each unit based in the fortress?
     
  13. watorrey

    watorrey Deity

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    The ideal would be a fortress on every tile such that your border cannot be crossed without attacking a fortress. It's only practical on short borders such as between Spain & France in the Napoleonic Conquest.

    If you just want the enemy to take fire when passing, place 2 units in each, your strongest defensive and offensive. Not sure if multiple units increase the odds of a hit or not.

    Don't forget, the maginot line didn't work in real life anyway... they just went around it.
     
  14. FM_Freyland

    FM_Freyland Vote with your wallets!

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    Well, I finally got into a war with the Incans, whom I was building my line of fortresses for. My forts all had Infantry in them. *All* of the 30 units, varying from Pikemen to infantry passed between my three forts and none were shot at. :cry:

    I don't get it.
     
  15. watorrey

    watorrey Deity

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    They have to move from 1 tile that is next to the fort to a 2nd tile that is next to the same fort.
     
  16. Bretwalda

    Bretwalda Warlord

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    I believe the ideal fort setup would be:

    xoxo
    oxox
    xoxo

    So there is no way to avoid getting thru ZOC. I found that armies are better on that, so if I can spare I put armies on mountaintop to shoot at passing units. Once I had two armies on mountains and AI went around taking hit after hit. But that did not really help on my lost position, anyway ;)
     

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