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[GS] Are Magnus' chops still worth it?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by cknwo, Feb 23, 2019.

  1. cknwo

    cknwo Chieftain

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    Assuming plenty of rainforest and forest. But eventually you run out of things to chop.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. frutiemax

    frutiemax Chieftain

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    I like the settler ability of magnus, beside that if you settle a new city that will be used for chopping into army it's worth it.
     
  3. Boyan_Sun

    Boyan_Sun Warlord

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    Almost unchanged till now, still very OP. He is the core of all fast victories, no matter in R&F or GS.
    Notice that chop itself is not nerfed at all, developers only nerfed the modifier card/abilities.
    If you play efficiently, and fast enough, you can win before disaster strikes.
     
  4. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    To clarify this for the anti chop crowd out there.
    A chop only really benefited from bonus cards for chopping slingers, galleys/quads, walls and to a degree archers/warriors. The large majority of chops did not use these overflows anyway. Just Magnus. So it has not really slowed down too much unless it was a "chop in 20 slingers" game which I did not go to.
    The Pillage however has made things a bit faster, where I notice it most is in gold. It just does not seem a bottleneck anymore. You can get more god off someones CH by pillaging it before surrender than you would get in a deal... you do not even need to take the city anymore, just pillage the tiles for best value and move on unless it is a great chop city.
    How are the best of the Chinese forum playing it?
     
    Uberfrog likes this.
  5. Furycrab

    Furycrab King

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    Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but Pingala first has kinda overshadowed a lot of my strategies. Doesn't help that I've been trying to refine a Mali opener where Magnus is a bad idea and I don't ever play "Wet" maps, but Pingala can be like 20-30% of my culture and science in the early game.

    Have something pretty ridiculous I think, I'm just not sure if there's a consistent way to get a classical Golden Age as the Mali on Deity.
     
  6. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    The number of civs that can consistently get it are few.
     
  7. Furycrab

    Furycrab King

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    Figured as much, I'm just trying to figure out if there's a way with maybe some of the new scoring possibilities. The timing is just that disgusting and on Immortal it's pretty free, you get a window where you can buy a ridiculous amount of civilian units with Faith (which includes your fairly busted traders), along with Markets while your capital is relatively free to grow with a juicy Pingala since you can buy your settlers off the second city (or even third city).

    On Deity I think if I get 1 coastal city, a natural wonder, and some Desert tiles, you can probably hit the timing. However if would have a pretty real fail rate and if you miss the timing it would hurt... A LOT.
     
  8. Boyan_Sun

    Boyan_Sun Warlord

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    The prevailing view is that pillage is so OP, not less than chop outside border/sold units in oldest version, that Firaxis would probably fix it in a month. So just don't use it, or it's difficult to change the habit.
     
  9. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    What about multiplayer? I tried starting with Magnus in my first games played and couldnt feel the same power. Then i tried without Magnus for other games and found to have better games overall.

    But production has more value over time than single player i think. Game length is higher(120-150 turns online vs 175-230 standrad) and the energy put on building worker is more production incentive than singleplayer too(less chances to buy or get free ones).

    Anyone experimented less favoritism for Magnus in mp games since Gathering Storm?

    Any thoughts about using Magnus more efficiently in mp games?(I do prefer Reyna or Pingala early on since GS)
     
    cknwo likes this.
  10. Boyan_Sun

    Boyan_Sun Warlord

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    Magnus is indispensable in a warmonger MP game. One of his promotions is strategic resource requirements -80%, which means he could have 5 times as many good troops with the same amount of strategic resources. Then combines with his +50% chop, and scaled pillage, that will be a 7.5 times overwhelming advantage. Anyone who doesn't play like this will be eliminated soon.
     
    TrailblazingScot, cknwo and Victoria like this.
  11. kaltorak

    kaltorak Emperor

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    Man, all pro tactics sound terrible. I want an awesome empire with good land, not a victory with pillaged improvements and consumed resources
    :p
     
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  12. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    There are those that want pretty and those that want fast. I like both.
    There are even those that want excellent soundtracks or an interesting map to explore.
    Some people even just want the map to look like the desolation of Smaug.
    What turn do you like playing to?
     
    cknwo likes this.
  13. kaltorak

    kaltorak Emperor

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    I enjoy the start of the game the most. Getting the good land, fighting for good city spots. Medievel wars are also the most fun. I usually finish my games with artillery. I dont play many modern wars, if I reach that point I usually finish with a science victory. Domination and science are my victory conditions 90% of the time, since science and more cities makes my empire better, while tourism is useless. Im kind of not sure if I like religion or not. On one side it has perks that make my empire better, on the other, if you want a victory, you need to focus on spreading it more than on reaping it's rewards.

    I liked civ4 culture victory, when focusing on it meant even capturing cities bc of border expansion.
     
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  14. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    In another thread I have pointed out that resorts and parks make your civ look so much nicer, try it.
     
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  15. kaltorak

    kaltorak Emperor

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    Yes, I love them :) I meant the resource itself.
     
  16. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Personally I feel that tourism is not an object that should have multiple effects but it is one of the effects of an object.
    So having Moby Dick as an object produces both culture for civics and tourism. It is a cultured Item that weirdly attracts tourism.
    The Pyramids is the object and gives your builders extra charges and provides some culture but also produces tourism.
    Saying tourism should have another effect to me is like saying gold should have another effect, they are resulting consumables that have a purpose.
    A fish is a resource that yields food and gold...Therefore tourism is a yield not a resource.
     
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  17. kaltorak

    kaltorak Emperor

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    Yes, but other yields, like gold, science, culture or faith are used to improve my empire, while tourism is only used to win the game. It's like if in the next expansion they add new buildings or terrain improvements that generate game score and a score limit that makes yo win the game. So now we can focus on getting the score victory condition soon if we aim for it. I couldnt care less for generating game score, same as tourism.
     
  18. Boyan_Sun

    Boyan_Sun Warlord

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    Some people are more rational, some people are more emotional, but more people are both, and this game can meet most people's taste. As long as everyone can find their own fun, it's great.
    Here is Strategy & Tips, so it might be a little more rational, or say "pro". Believe me, in other games like Civ4, "pros" don't chop chop chop like this, but as I know, they would use slavery to speed up things, also very crazy.
    I mean, the mathematical model is cruel, just like the law of nature in real world.
     
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  19. kaltorak

    kaltorak Emperor

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    Civ4 is my prefered civ when talking about empire management. But the 1upt really is so much better than stack of doom
     
  20. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    The -80% part is interesting...the way it does in mp(i watch some best players that actually stream these days) is kind of different that you think. I try to find something useful from 50% chop in the early game and i can't find anything that fits better than non Magnus starts.

    The 80% bonus can be very interesting around the discovery of Niter for a fast Musketmen or Frigates rush. Niter can be a real ******* and Magnus can really fit in this case.

    ''Anyone who doesn't play like this will be eliminated soon'' : This sentence is clearly exagerated.
     
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