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Are multiple holy cities "worth it"?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by aaronflavor, Feb 24, 2006.

  1. aaronflavor

    aaronflavor Warlord

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    Is it worth trying to develop religions associated with more than one holy city?

    For example, it is relatively common for me to end up with more than one holy city, either by being ahead in tech or conquest. Usually I will develop one of the religions by building the shrine, spreading it to all of my cities, spreading it to my neighbors, and making it my state religion (if feasible). Should I be doing this for all of the religions I found, or is it just a waste of production (missionaries) and great prophets?
     
  2. Willem

    Willem Deity

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    It's definitely worth it. If you have the shrine built for both, you're getting double the amount of gold per turn. Even though your second religion might not be the state one, you still get 1 gold for every city it's established in.
     
  3. fbouthil

    fbouthil Occasional Mercenary

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    If you have the shrine for a religion, the missionnary is one of the cheapest way to increase your gpt, after the courthouses. At epic speed, missionaries cost 50 hammers and gives you 1 gold per turn when the shrine is built. If the holy city has bank, market and grocer, it goes up to 2 gpt (so 25 hammers per gpt).

    On the other hand, don't do it too much. It must not delay your victory because that will lower your final score.
     
  4. rewster1

    rewster1 Warlord

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    You could argue missionaries are even cheaper, on a relative scale compared to courthouses, because they can be spammed in a single highly productive city long before you can cash rush buildings...
     
  5. Vonreuter

    Vonreuter Warlord

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    What about early Prophets? Are they better used in rushing the Religious technologies (from Code of Laws to Civil Service) or used to create the religious buildings of holy cities? Is it better to get the +1 gold per city with the religion or a sudden technological advantage? Early Civil Service can be a real game winner...
     
  6. CaptainEO

    CaptainEO Chieftain

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    Regarding the first post - I think spreading multiple religions makes most sense if you need the gold and/or culture boost. If you have tons of towns and are not going for a cultural victory, then spreading religion is less important.
     
  7. rewster1

    rewster1 Warlord

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    Early prophets should probably be used toward some sort of tech... that early, you would only get 3 or 4 gold, and you will probably get a few more prophets a little later on that can be used for the shrines.
     
  8. Holbek

    Holbek Chieftain

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    1 holy city with a shrine is usually enough for starters.
    But, if you are going to war against a civ with a shrine somewhere, make sure to take it out as one of the first - if possible, keep it.
    That will take away a lot of his income, and boost yours - giving you a huge advantage during the war.
     
  9. Willem

    Willem Deity

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    I'd say your better off with the Shrine. If you don't do it while you have the chance, the cost of the GP will go up and it will take much longer to get your next prophet. And you have to look at the long term. 3 or 4 gold at first might not seem like a lot, but just add that that up over the space of a game and it's going to make a big difference. Plus with the Shrine you get a bunch of culture from the city and the ability of having several Priests in that city, which will give you mor Great Prophets.

    I personally think that, unless it's the end of the game or you're way behind, using GPs for techs is the worst way of using them. In the long run you'd be better off just turning them into Super Specialists. The amount of beakers you can get from them for a tech is limited, and you'll end up with more all around by not using them for techs.
     
  10. katank

    katank Prince

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    Using the first 1 or two prophets for Theology or CoL is quite worthwhile. Additional religion.

    You can also spread your religion around a bit before building the shrine in anticipate of future income. Nothing says you need to wait to spread till you get a shrine first.

    Multiple religions become truly powerful if you get 2 or more in the same city. Drawing from 3 well spread shrines in a single city with market, grocer, bank, and Wall Street is amazingly powerful.

    Observe this in the RB1 Cuban isolationist thread in the Succession Game forums. Dubbed the Hydra strategy, it can be great for civs that start with mysticism.
     
  11. Tan

    Tan Chieftain

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    Katank is absolutely right. Founding multiple religions and building their respective shrines will increase your income immensly. I recently started a game as monty and founded buddhism and islam and built both their shrines. I switched to Universal Suffrage and simply buy everything.
     
  12. Pilotis

    Pilotis Prince

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    IMHO you HAVE to found a religion early and get that shrine. It's a key early objective for me.
     
  13. GinandTonic

    GinandTonic Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime

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    Yup. As I see it you need one worldwide religion (there are usually two, Bud and Hind) and at least one, pref two secondary religions. I feel better about it if I have a forth religion with a targetable holy city ripe for the plucking and I have built a monistary pre scientific method for that religion.

    Sometimes (esp marathon where religion is extra important) I found a city just to get it converted, so I can build a monistary, so I can have a financially viable expansion plan.
     
  14. fbouthil

    fbouthil Occasional Mercenary

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    IMHO, it is even better if you can conquer a holy city that already has the shrine. Founding an early religion yourself is difficult on Monarch level and slows your initial expansion because you are delaying other techs like pottery, animal handling, mining or bronze working. On the other hand, it is viable on Prince level or lower.
     
  15. Elrohir

    Elrohir RELATIONAL VALORIZATION

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    The earliest religions I've founded have been Christianity and Confucianism. If you try too early, you may get them and get an early religious lead, but you may also slow down your research. I would suggest you just beeline for Alphabet, then Code of Laws, which will give you a religion and the ability to trade techs. Then you won't fall behind so much in tech, you can built Courthouses, and you have your own religion. It's a win-win.
     
  16. Chillaxation

    Chillaxation Warlord

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    My advice: don't rely on researching for a religion at all. In higher levels if you insist on it, you'll lose the tech race to founding any given religion, or you'll be at a decided disadvantage when you found it - and you'll find yourself losing the game.

    On the other hand, founding a religion can be a useful adaptation an exploitation of your strengths. Industrious leaders with a marble resource nearby should consider an Oracle sling to CoL. Countries that begin with Mysticism should consider Hinduism and Judaism if they have a lot of basic production and commerce without terrain improvement. If every start and every situation, at higher difficulties, demands an appropriate response, then founding a religion is sometimes that response.

    Think of it less as a must-complete goal than as a possible route to your desired victory.
     
  17. Crighton

    Crighton Emperor

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    I'll be honest, I'm too lazy to go about founding a religion.

    Once in a blue moon I'll found Islam, not intentionally I might add.

    My strategy is to adopt to the religion of my neighbor (that way we're friendly), then I prep for a war of religious unification to get the holy city. When I'm not busy doing / prepping for other things I try to spread my gospel to the heathens to rake in the $ (and to get that diplo bonus and try to providean incentive not to war with me until I war upon them).
     
  18. Toshiro126

    Toshiro126 Warlord

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    I try not to go too crazy founding a religion. If I found anything, it's usually Christianity. This is made easier for me by the fact I always build Stonehenge, so my first two GPs are usually great prophets. With my first I found the religion, and with the second I build the shrine.

    If I get another holy city, it's usually from taking over a city that founded that religion.

    Originally I thought having every AI near me with the same religion would lessen the chances of getting attacked by one of them. In my current game, I founded Christianity and converted everyone else on my large piece of land. China attacked me anyway! guess they didn't like all the samurai I had near their borders.... :ar15:

    I would rather build soldiers than missionaries. :mischief:
     

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