Are Puppets broken or WAD?

[shinkicker]

I had a strange experience this afternoon in my Civ5 game.

Harun al Rashid talked me into joining him in a war against Montezuma. I'd been building up for that showdown for a while, so went ahead and moved my units to the border. The war was pretty much a walk-over with 2 civs pounding on one. As I moved my mech infantry and rocket artillery north into Aztec country, I came upon the city of Washington.

Washington had been taken from America in a previous war. Then, al-Rashid had taken it from Montezuma and made it a puppet.

Not realizing it was a puppet (I wasn't paying that much attention - the city title bar was red) I opened fire. The game would not allow me to bombard the city since it was a puppet. I can accept that. But then the next turn, Washington opened fire on me and bombarded my artillery unit!

So why is it that a puppet of an ally cannot be attacked but it can open fire on me at will? Is that fair or is it something that might be patched at some point?

 

[Ahriman]

So why is it that a puppet of an ally cannot be attacked but it can open fire on me at will? Is that fair or is it something that might be patched at some point?

I think you have misunderstood.
You can attack puppets just fine, from a warfare perspective there is no difference between a puppet and a regular city.

If I had to guess, what happened is you had a rocket artillery unit 2 tiles away but were blocked by rough terrain, so you could not reach the city. But the city comes with indirect fire ability, so the city could reach you. I bet you would find you could bombard if you were directly adjacent, and that you could attack with melee.

 

[shinkicker]

I think you have misunderstood.
You can attack puppets just fine, from a warfare perspective there is no difference between a puppet and a regular city.

If I had to guess, what happened is you had a rocket artillery unit 2 tiles away but were blocked by rough terrain, so you could not reach the city. But the city comes with indirect fire ability, so the city could reach you. I bet you would find you could bombard if you were directly adjacent, and that you could attack with melee.

No, that was the first thing I checked. I moved my rocket artillery around to other hexes and had the same result. When I set up the artillery to fire, the city wasn't included in the firing area.

Could it have something to do with the terrain of the city itself?

(Rocket artillery has a range of 3 hexes, btw, and mine were only 2 hexes off - within range of the city's counter fire).

 

[Ahriman]

I moved my rocket artillery around to other hexes and had the same result.

Including when you were directly adjacent to the city? Did you also try attacking it with the mechinf from an adjacent tile?

Could it have something to do with the terrain of the city itself?

I don't see how, no.
But certainly its irrelevant whether its a puppet state.

(Rocket artillery has a range of 3 hexes, btw, and mine were only 2 hexes off - within range of the city's counter fire).

Doesn't matter if they were blocked by rough terrain.

Can you post a screenshot? Would help to diagnose.

 

[shinkicker]

Sorry, I'd put a screenie up if I hadn't already moved on with the game. Montezuma is no more and I'm about to take out al Rashid. If this issue occurs again I'll certainly shoot some screenshots.

 

[aisle5]

When using artillery you can only attack things you can see, regardless of how far away it is. Perhaps the case is that Washington is on a hill/mountain and your artillery is on lower ground and can't see the city even if it is only 2 hexes away. If this is the case, the city can see you and attack your artillery yet you can't fire back.

 

[sovarn]

It is probably a bug.

 

[DalekDavros]

When using artillery you can only attack things you can see, regardless of how far away it is. Perhaps the case is that Washington is on a hill/mountain and your artillery is on lower ground and can't see the city even if it is only 2 hexes away. If this is the case, the city can see you and attack your artillery yet you can't fire back.

No, you can see onto hills. The problem would be something like having a hill tile between you and the city (in which case you could see onto and attack the hill tile, but not see or attack the city).

 

[shinkicker]

It is probably a bug.

I'm more convinced than ever now, because I tried to attack the city with bombers just now and I couldn't even get the bombardment targeting cursor.

I don't care if we can't attack puppets, but there's no way they should also fire back at us.

Here's a screenshot:

 

[Takeda]

you lack line of sight so you cannot fire

/thread

 

[shinkicker]

you lack line of sight so you cannot fire

/thread

Bombers DO NOT REQUIRE A LINE OF SIGHT.

 

[shamsael]

I don't know, man. In the screen shot, Washington is under FoW. I don't think you're allowed to shoot at it in that case.

 

[shinkicker]

I don't know, man. In the screen shot, Washington is under FoW. I don't think you're allowed to shoot at it in that case.

That turns out to be the case. My bad - I had assumed that the black hexes were FOW, but that the grey ones had just been out of ZOC for too long.

The thing is, in Civ 4 your bombers would light up squares they overflew and you could use them as recon units. Not so in 5, about all bombers do is bomb.

I finally just ran a motorized infantry unit into the city and then made it my own puppet.