Are the AI upgrading luxuries/strategic resources after March patch?

nauberry

Warlord
Joined
Dec 10, 2018
Messages
172
Location
Finland
I think it might be good to have this as a separate thread from the patch notes discussion. There were multiple people asking about whether the AI not building luxury and strategic improvements is fixed or not. I haven't had time to play with the new patch yet, but knowing if the bug is fixed or not affects the modes I'll choose.

Does anyone have proof, that the AI is upgrading most of their luxuries/other resources? Does it happen in only new saves or is it affecting old ones as well?
 
This is what I wrote in the other thread:

I think it's definitely improved, because all the AI civs I met had a luxury improved (even different kinds), one even had two silvers mined near their capital by turn 200 (so in the classical era).
But it's clear now that the majority only improved one of a kind, and they did not have copies.
I think this is a deliberate restriction from the devs to keep the AI away from monopolies.
 
I think this is a deliberate restriction from the devs to keep the AI away from monopolies.
From my game so far, I observed Persia have 2 Incense improved by the early classical era, while Vietnam had 1 Marble and 1 Pearls improved a bit later. It may be worth noting that Incense was very widespread on the continent with three instances appearing in my territory, so the two improved instances Persia had did not bring him close to a monopoly. If the developers have actively prevented the AI from obtaining a monopoly, it's beyond lame!
 
I played in standard mode and there were civs with 3+ copies of whales, turtles, etc.
 
I played in standard mode and there were civs with 3+ copies of whales, turtles, etc.

AFAIK, playing outside the C&M mode was never broken in this regard - the problem is just that with this mode activated the AI shows that broken behaviour. And telling from my continued game, it is still broken (with a small chance that I just haven't played long enough after the ptach and the AI still needing time to fix what it messed up before. Since it is a Marathon game, I can't rule it out...)
 
If the developers have actively prevented the AI from obtaining a monopoly, it's beyond lame!
I doubt this would be the case. What is there to gain by limiting the AI:s capabilities in this regard? Could it be related to some kind of value, where the AI tries to prioritize monopolies, but due to an coding error (typo etc) causes them to avoid it?
 
I doubt this would be the case. What is there to gain by limiting the AI:s capabilities in this regard? Could it be related to some kind of value, where the AI tries to prioritize monopolies, but due to an coding error (typo etc) causes them to avoid it?
Well I agree, it would be a truly incomprehensible choice, I was just referring to the theory mentioned above. I agree it is most likely a bug, which may or may not be fixed. However the fact that they apparently, if reports are true, did not really fix the tourism modifier but just scale it down a bit does leave me somewhat worried about the design choices taken. Of course there's also the fact that AI can't use Heroes and, at least until recently, couldn't use Cultists, but that's obviously more a question of failing to code the AI to use them rather than actively coding the AI from NOT using them, which is arguably a lot less plausible.
 
AFAIK, playing outside the C&M mode was never broken in this regard - the problem is just that with this mode activated the AI shows that broken behaviour. And telling from my continued game, it is still broken (with a small chance that I just haven't played long enough after the ptach and the AI still needing time to fix what it messed up before. Since it is a Marathon game, I can't rule it out...)

I'm pretty sure I had this problem in my Gaul game, before the C&M mode came out. It might be true that the problem happens only when C&M is active since it was released, but I'll just point out that whatever Firaxis did to cause this, they did it before the January patch.
 
I'm on turn 82 with C&M and AI still doesn't seem to prioritize luxuries. Plenty of farms or mines or quarries though (mainly on plain tiles or bonus resources).
I don't get it, why AI prioritize building 3 mines on plain hills around one luxury hex that has a diamonds on it. (with diamonds straight next to a city center, two mines also on first ring and one on a second ring)
 
I’m at T200 in corporations mode (and barbarians) and the AI does not seem to be improving their luxuries. On the bright side, I’m at turn 200 in the mode and I’m nowhere close to a culture victory. I also have no monopolies.
 
AFAIK, playing outside the C&M mode was never broken in this regard - the problem is just that with this mode activated the AI shows that broken behaviour. And telling from my continued game, it is still broken (with a small chance that I just haven't played long enough after the ptach and the AI still needing time to fix what it messed up before. Since it is a Marathon game, I can't rule it out...)

Just for information purposes, i have no parts of the NFP and it is noticable that the AI does not improve tiles, luxuries or strategic resources or even repair pillaged tiles a lot of the time (in the rare instance a tile was improved before hand to be pillaged).
 
@Andrew Johnson [FXS] can you shine a light on this issue? Is AI not improving luxeries with corporation mode enabled even on the devs radar?

Edit: by not improving I meant only improving a single of each type of luxeries, thus preventing AI from building corporations and monopolies
 
@Andrew Johnson [FXS] can you shine a light on this issue? Is AI not improving luxeries with corporation mode enabled even on the devs radar?

Edit: by not improving I meant only improving a single of each type of luxeries, thus preventing AI from building corporations and monopolies
This seems like a design question; I'm the historian! I honestly don't know - this sort of thing is not the sort of thing that comes across my desk.
 
This has been diagnosed (AI doesn't improve luxuries when they can build industries, but not yet corporations) and there's a fairly effective band-aid
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2408529837
see also here
(1.0.9.9) AI not improving resources
Still haven't seen a corporation that's not built by me though.

They do build industries when they stumble on a second resource (via city state, for example). As a mediocre but experienced dev, I have a theory about this: the AI sees a second luxury, wants to build an industry, can't do it because the second resource is not improved - but also doesn't improve its second resource because it values the Industry higher.
 
When I play a non domination game if I do the math afterward I typically will end up creating around 4 builders per city for chops/improvements. Some games/civs more, some less. Watching YouTubers, I think better players probably make even more builders per city than that.

Obviously for domination games I make fewer builders per city.

Going through end of game stats, the AI typically makes about 1-2 few builders per city than I do.

It is obvious to me that this is the issue.

the AI needs to further prioritize builders. If they did, they’d end up getting more luxury resources online- however they’d also end up with improved tiles they’re not working, which of course is a waste of their production.
 
Going through end of game stats, the AI typically makes about 1-2 few builders per city than I do.
It is obvious to me that this is the issue.
the AI needs to further prioritize builders. If they did, they’d end up getting more luxury resources online
I'm uncertain whether we have / get proper access to modify builder prioritisation (and what direct unwanted consequences that would have).

Still it would be quite easy to give the AI players via Lua script for example ten turns after foundation of a city a free settler builder there. Might getting more luxury resources online ...
Or perhaps the AI players just disband those settlers builders because they have no clue what they could / should do with them :D

(edit: settlers builders)
 
Last edited:
This has been diagnosed (AI doesn't improve luxuries when they can build industries, but not yet corporations) and there's a fairly effective band-aid
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2408529837
see also here
(1.0.9.9) AI not improving resources
Still haven't seen a corporation that's not built by me though.

They do build industries when they stumble on a second resource (via city state, for example). As a mediocre but experienced dev, I have a theory about this: the AI sees a second luxury, wants to build an industry, can't do it because the second resource is not improved - but also doesn't improve its second resource because it values the Industry higher.
Very logical and right on point. Too bad top devs employed by multi billion dollars industry act like workers in civ6. They focus on big prize, and won't improve less important luxuries. Video games are a billion-dollar business and have been for many years. In 2020, the revenue from the worldwide PC gaming market was estimated at almost 37 billion U.S. dollars, while the mobile gaming market generated an estimated income of over 77 billion U.S. dollars.
 
They do build industries when they stumble on a second resource (via city state, for example). As a mediocre but experienced dev, I have a theory about this: the AI sees a second luxury, wants to build an industry, can't do it because the second resource is not improved - but also doesn't improve its second resource because it values the Industry higher.
That sounds very plausible. I really hope this theory can be brought to the proper programmers if it turns out the problem persists with the march patch.

As for AI founding corporations, I wouldn't be surprised if there's no coding for this at all, similar to how they don't (can't?) use heroes special abilities. This claim is consistent with the fact that when the human player earns a Great Merchant, it highlights all the suitable tiles for the merchant's special ability (like a Commercial Hub, a city state, or whatever the ability links to), yet it does not highlight any of your industries that qualifies for upgrading to corporations. I realize it's not exactly a proof in itself, just an observation that's at least consistent with lack of AI coding for this behaviour.
 
I'm pretty sure I had this problem in my Gaul game, before the C&M mode came out. It might be true that the problem happens only when C&M is active since it was released, but I'll just point out that whatever Firaxis did to cause this, they did it before the January patch.

Improving ressources was never a huge strength of the AI (e.g. see my report here: [NFP] - [1.0.2.39] AI often not improving ressources over long time | CivFanatics Forums ), but constantly ignoring to improve a 2nd copy is something I haven't seen before C&M. My theory is that multiple issues contribute to this problem, but of course that's just speculation. And I don't even care really who is closer to the truth here - as long as we get a fix soon :)
 
This seems like a design question; I'm the historian! I honestly don't know - this sort of thing is not the sort of thing that comes across my desk.

Andrew, it's wonderful that you are here. I always enjoy reading your posts and learning about the historical considerations. It's a shame though that there isn't anyone from the design side of the game here as well! (to my knowledge)

If any Firaxis designers are lurking, please come out of the shadows!
 
Top Bottom