Are the words "progressive" and "reform" leftist conspiracies?

[bhsup]

I don't actually mean the words themselves, but rather their typical use in a political setting. Much like the beloved tactic of appending -phobe onto the end of anything to imply a fear of something, but then saying "well it doesn't really mean fear" even though they know that's what clicks in most folks' minds. But this thread isn't about the phobe thing, there's another thread for that. That was just another example.

Who could be opposed to progress and reform? Really, I mean it's so sunshiney, kumbaya sounding. It -has- to be for the best, right? Label something as as one of those two things and you're getting the implication that it is an improvement over the current situation, even if it really isn't, but then try to be opposed because you know it isn't and you're anti-reform / anti-progress.

I really have to admit, leftists have truly master the art of language manipulation to further their agenda.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Everybody tries to stack the deck by the words they use to frame an issue.

(I've recently observed a case that I regard as just masterful. It will come to me, and I'll add it in a future post.)

What's actually remarkable, rhetorically speaking, is the degree to which conservatives have managed to make "progressive" a slur, even more than "liberal."

For all that "progress" is, as you say, something that no one can conceive being against, one still can't safely be a "progressive" in the American political scene.

 

[Tahuti]

No. I do not support 'progress' or 'reform' when it turns out to be bad. Nor would I oppose a return to the past, if it turns out the status quo ante doesn't work either.

Not everyone wants to be progressive or reformist, at least not all the time. The leftist fallacy of uncoditionally supporting everything that is branded 'progressive' or 'reformist' is precisely its problem. There is however an amount of groupthink involved over what is progressive or not.

 

[Oruc]

You shouldn't use the word conspiracies as that implies you're talking a load of nonsense

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Be honest thought - progressive and reform are used by the right as buzzwords for 'socialism' and other *nasty* things all the time. Progressive in general might as well be a four-letter word to people on the right and that's how they use it. They lob the words around like insults

So if the words are leftist conspiracies, then they are also diametrically opposed rightist conspiracies as well.

edit:
'd by Gori

 

[metatron]

I don't actually mean the words themselves, but rather their typical use in a political setting. Much like the beloved tactic of appending -phobe onto the end of anything to imply a fear of something, but then saying "well it doesn't really mean fear" even though they know that's what clicks in most folks' minds. But this thread isn't about the phobe thing, there's another thread for that. That was just another example.

Who could be opposed to progress and reform? Really, I mean it's so sunshiney, kumbaya sounding. It -has- to be for the best, right? Label something as as one of those two things and you're getting the implication that it is an improvement over the current situation, even if it really isn't, but then try to be opposed because you know it isn't and you're anti-reform / anti-progress.

I really have to admit, leftists have truly master the art of language manipulation to further their agenda.

You mean like "tort reform"?

 

[El_Machinae]

I don't think it's intentional. I think it's accidental; I also don't think it's leftist, since the median progressive is not all that leftist. They're rightwing, with some different ideas on the amount of property seizure that is acceptable. If we (progressives) see a change we like, we're likely to start calling it 'progress' too soon. This might very well create a zeitgeist, where we think there's progress when there really isn't.

 

[Mise]

Yes, it's rhetoric. Actually the left are really bad at rhetoric. Blair and his army of spin doctors were good, but Obama is pretty poor at it. He's much better at the machinery of election campaigning than he is at spin. The whole "99%/1%" thing was a bit of a flop. But the general idea of going after bankers sort of worked, being as there's basically no prestige in working for a bank any more among smart graduates. They all go to silicon roundabout and shoreditch rather than canary wharf and the city now. I think the same is true in America too -- it's the tech companies that have all the cachet now, rather than the banks.

I still think "boat people" in Australia is one of the more ridiculous rhetorical buzzwords in modern politics. I mean it just sounds like absurdist humour.

 

[gay_Aleks]

I'll most likely regret it, but what are the "boat people" and what does it stand for in the apparently increasingly weirder Australian politics?

Are Vietnamese refugees finally getting into your politics?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Freedom and liberty, rightwing conspiracy words? You decide. I'm just asking.

Sorry to say this but Christ some of you guys are cowardly inane. Maybe you should progress from the bs notion there are 2 kinds of people and reform that idea to encorporate a more pragmatic approach.

 

[gay_Aleks]

There are three people: the man trying to take my jerbs, the man trying to take my money and the woman trying to take my sanity.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Who exactly are you calling inane? The OP? The posters here? All of CFC?

SAY IT TO MAH FACE BRO

 

[Gori the Grey]

And why would any formulation of how politics work, however needlessly binary, be "cowardly"?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Who exactly are you calling inane? The OP? The posters here? All of CFC?

SAY IT TO MAH FACE BRO

Hobbs, catching my drift since 2012.

And why would any formulation of how politics work, however needlessly binary, be "cowardly"?

Simple.

"The Left is always going X".
"I never go X, and I'm left. Therefore your proposition is utter bollocks good Sir".
"I didn't mean you".
"Well address the person you did mean then"

I did it in a previous post to illustrate and Hobbs picked up on it, because there's no fooling Hobbs.

 

[brennan]

Ironic that you;ve used the word 'leftist' quite so much...?

 

[gay_Aleks]

Come to think, aren't most words in general leftist conspiracies? Real men use sign language and Morse code to get their points across.

 

[brennan]

Nonono.

Real men use the jawbone from a dead horse.

 

[Borachio]

I'll most likely regret it, but what are the "boat people" and what does it stand for in the apparently increasingly weirder Australian politics?

Are Vietnamese refugees finally getting into your politics?

You've correctly identified the Vietnamese origin of the term. It's used now to refer to mainly economic migrants being trafficked, by boat, to both Australia (from vague parts of SE Asia) and Europe (from North Africa). (Though not at the same time.)

But I think you know this already. (I'll most likely regret telling you.)

 

[warpus]

Who could be opposed to progress and reform?

Well, who could be opposed to liberalism, if all you do is look up the exact definition of the term?

Yet people are..

 

[Hygro]

Really it was the opposite. As industrialization ran roughshod over the common person, capitalism's defense against the real left wing required that some changes be made. They called this movement capital p Progressive and it saved capitalism from revolution.

If anything, progressive and reform are part of a rightwing conspiracy.

It just so happens that progress is toward the left. Progress here defined as "make life tolerable enough that we don't violently revolt."