Are too many natural wonders poorly placed?

[insaneweasel]

Natural wonders are cool, but so many of them are placed in terrible spots. I have seen krakatoa and rock of gibraltar placed more than 4 tiles away from a coast...no city could possibly get them. What's more, a lot of the time the wonders start near a city-state.

They become useless then, because it is rarely worth the fight and the destruction of a city state just for one tile that is marginally better than other (even as spain, only el dorado and cierro MIGHT be worth the loss of a cultural or maritime CS.)

So I ask you, do you have the same opinion, and should Natural wonders not be placed near city states?

 

[Camikaze]

Natural wonders are often near city states, because they are often near starting locations, and city states dominate the starting locations. I don't really think it's a bad thing. It makes city states more valuable (as a target).

Being in the middle of the ocean isn't a good thing, but I guess that's like the old fish resource next to a mountain island.

 

[Misterboy]

Anecdotally, in all the Civ 5 games I've played, I've probably had a natural wonder in a city's workable tile, maybe 5 times. To me, they are an elusive beast

Yeah, I find their placement to be a bit odd. I've noticed that very often they are placed just outside a City State's potential radius, but too close to them to make you want to drop a city just for that silly natural wonder.

 

[fmlizard2]

I play a lot of Spain because they are a ton of fun due to the randomness of Natural Wonders and how the game really unfolds in an interesting way if you pop a major one like Cerro de Potosi or El Dorado within your natural territory area. I just had a game when I founded my 2nd city next to Potosi on turn 13 for +20 GP a turn. I also love the early game exploration in Triremes and extra scouts to find them first for +500 GP.

I think the placements are pretty good. The only one that totally sucks is Krakatoa because you can almost never work it. It usually has no land nearby. Though it is a nice incentive to get Astronomy early as Spain and be the first to find it.

Barringer Crater also usually is in a desert or tundra and doesn't give good buffs anyway.

 

[Unhappy Ood]

I have played a 100 or so games, and only managed to get a natural wonders within borders 2 or 3 times

 

[insaneweasel]

Natural wonders are often near city states, because they are often near starting locations, and city states dominate the starting locations. I don't really think it's a bad thing. It makes city states more valuable (as a target).

But city states are almost never worth destroying...99% of the time it's good to keep them around for the culture or the food. When a natural wonder spawns next to a CS, it's practically useless for the length of the game. Destroying a CS and getting massive unhappiness for a few extra hammers or gold is rarely worth it in the mid to late games, even as spain. I still think that the devs should change the spawn rate so natural wonders don't end up next to city states. The way it is now seems like poor design.

 

[Camikaze]

Or alternatively, they could make city states more attractive to take. That is, not attractive so that you would always go after them, but attractive enough to make it something you would consider.

 

[The_Quasar]

Last game I played (fractal map), there were two islands, and I was with several AIs on the larger one... there were 3 or 4 on the smaller island, together with all the Natural Wonders, except Krakatoa and Rock of Gibralta... Krakatoa was in mid ocean, and the Rock was about 3 or 4 hexs off the coast of a CS...

It always amazes me how if there are two large islands/land masses, how the Natural Wonders always seem to be on the other island!

It doesn't concern me too much if a Natural Wonder is inside a close CS's boarders, I just use a Culture Bomb... job done!

 

[RD-BH]

Hmm,
... if we could have floating cities in the future era.
... as it currently sets,
... ... we have to reach alpha centauri first
... then transcending at least once,
... ... we be pirates!
... Alas, no krakatoa,
... ... but I've bubbly water cheap cheap.

 

[Deggial]

I think the placement of Krakatoa and Rock of Gibralta is adequate on some regard.

The Krakatoa is an island in the middle of nowhere and Gibraltar is a small island not far from the coast.

Regarding Gibraltar, I've had plenty of games with Gibralta near enough to the coast to be workable - at least theoretical.

As for the Krakatoa: Yes, placing it on a tiny two or three tiles island by default (maybe with some see ressources) would be a great addition! But leave this island in the middle of a water desert.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Natural wonders are often near city states, because they are often near starting locations, and city states dominate the starting locations.

That used to be the case, but I have noticed that it's changed sicne the last patch. In my last few games I haven't seen one natural wonder inside a CS' borders.

 

[spider1]

Krakatoa is the only wonder that I've never had in my borders at least once. It never seems to show up in any useable tile in any of my games. Gibraltar is always next to a mountain which is on a land mass, but when I do find it, most of the time either a CS or an AI civ has settled next to it. I very rarely get a wonder in my games. I can go four or five games and never get a wonder in my borders.

 

[Camikaze]

That used to be the case, but I have noticed that it's changed sicne the last patch. In my last few games I haven't seen one natural wonder inside a CS' borders.

Has it been a documented change?

In my current game, of what I've discovered so far, the Great Barrier Reef is next to Bucharest, the Old Faithful near Rio, Mt Fuji next to Sydney.

And Krakatoa in the middle of an ocean.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I haven't seen it in the patch notes, it's just something I noticed in my games. I recently started three tiles away from Mt Fuji, and the Grand Mesa and Old Faithhul are far away from any starting posititions and City States.
Could be coincidence.

 

[bryanw1995]

Anecdotally, in all the Civ 5 games I've played, I've probably had a natural wonder in a city's workable tile, maybe 5 times. To me, they are an elusive beast

Yeah, I find their placement to be a bit odd. I've noticed that very often they are placed just outside a City State's potential radius, but too close to them to make you want to drop a city just for that silly natural wonder.

Right after getting spain I played a standard/continents map and settled next to 2 natural wonders. However, I had to spread out pretty thin to do it. Generally speaking I don't prioritize them when I'm not spain so I rarely get them. Some times I'll conquer a city with one, of course, especially if it has one of the fantasy ones like el dorado or FOY.

 

[Grievous]

one game i played the 'great barrier reef' was in a lake.....

nice one civ5.

 

[Becephalus]

I have had at least one NW in CS borders every game so far post patch.

 

[Drawmeus]

one game i played the 'great barrier reef' was in a lake.....

nice one civ5.

Lake Victoria Cichlids instead?

 

[fmlizard2]

one game i played the 'great barrier reef' was in a lake.....

nice one civ5.

As a Spain player, I wish! The reef is always just a bit out of reach. What a starting position it would be.

Somewhat OT: I have never found El Dorado first as Spain. Do you get to double dip on the bonus? (+500, +500)

 

[FlowKey]

What are you all whining about?! They are WONDERS, which implies they are rare and unusual ... first meaning in wiktionary:

Something that causes amazement or awe, a marvel.

Anyhow, not something all civ's have some unalienable right to IMO