Are Trebs worth it anymore?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by PimpyMicPimp, Aug 14, 2007.

  1. PimpyMicPimp

    PimpyMicPimp Regrets His Username.

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    Really, since seige can't kill units anymore, why should I build trebs? Catapults are cheaper and take off more defense in bombardment than trebs. I guess trebs upgrade to cannons cheaper, but that's not enough of a reason for me most of the time. Is there any advantage, really?
     
  2. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

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    I thought this at first too, but you have to realize the new mechanics of siege. Yes, trebs can't kill units but with the 100% city attack + CR promos there is a much higher likelihood that the will survive and thus not be simply a "suicide" unit. It won't kill the defender, but damaging defenders and doing collateral is still VERY important when taking cities and trebs do a good job here. Cats will primarily be suicide units which adds up in hammers over time when you're constantly replacing them. With trebs surving more battles, you're replacing them less often which helps ease the pain somewhat of their increased cost.

    They used to be insanely dominant units. Now they are just good, and necessary, units.
     
  3. EdCase

    EdCase Defender of the Faithless

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    And the natural follow on..when they do upgrade to cannons ..they are (quite often ,if your a warmonger)promoted units too
     
  4. PimpyMicPimp

    PimpyMicPimp Regrets His Username.

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    Very true, collateral is more important than actually killing the unit, for me anyhoo. Hmm, maybe I really should build them again, instead of theorycrafting them into oblivion :p
     
  5. ATopic22

    ATopic22 Clan SPADE Captain

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    ive actually built 2 trebs in playing the game but never used them. catapults do my job since i just want to damage defenses.
     
  6. Lurking Liu

    Lurking Liu Prince

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    Trebuchets are far from obsolete. They damage defenses twice as effectively as Catapults, and they're more likely to survive if you use them to attack the city afterwords.
     
  7. Underdawg

    Underdawg King

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    Plus, with the CRII promotion, the trebuchet has a 145% bonus against cities!!!

    Yes, they can actually survive!
     
  8. CivCorpse

    CivCorpse Supreme Overlord of All

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    You have it backwards. Cats do half the bombard damage that trebs do. I find myself using spies frequently to incite a revolt to lower defenses. But they gey caught from time to time so trebs are more reliable. I usually bring a minimum of 7 which will knock down defenses in a turn or two. I usually bring another half dozen or so cats and use 2 per city for collateral damage. Pilliging horse resources is a must or they horsies will wipe out your siege weapons.
     
  9. CivDude86

    CivDude86 King

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    Bombarding with catapults against castles takes way to long. You basically sacrifing a least 4 pop and going to have to go against 2 more defenders if sit there too long throw rocks at them or bringing way too many catapults. And if they have the SoZ they are probably better way letting throw your catapults at you.
     
  10. mnf

    mnf King

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    Yep, Trebs are much more reliable than Cats for sieges now.

    Not only that. My previous game I had to invade Japan, and I was so surprised to find my City Raider I maces looking at a stack of City Garrison II + Drill I. A few even with CGIII.

    These archers could be a good match for City Raider III maces when they're on a hilltop city. Without Trebs, I would've been looking at perhaps four to five times looses.

    Ah well, I suppose the real problem was that I should've scouted my enemy before declaring war. But you know Toku. It's hard to scout him. :(
     
  11. LUEser

    LUEser Chieftain

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    spy on em >_>
     
  12. futurehermit

    futurehermit Deity

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    if you use spies to generate revolts in cities no need for any siege units at all :D
     
  13. PimpyMicPimp

    PimpyMicPimp Regrets His Username.

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    I use spies for removing defenses, too :p Now if only they could do collateral damage...
     
  14. meatwad4289

    meatwad4289 Prince

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    by the time i think... "seige weapons would be a good way of kicking their Arse" i already got cannons.
     
  15. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    The spy revolts unfortunately do not weaken the enemy's units to half strength, as happens when a revolt occurs naturally due to culture.
     
  16. RedRalph

    RedRalph Deity

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    Plus the spies are unreliable. If you turn up with no siege weapons and the revolt mission fails yer up the creak
     
  17. kazapp

    kazapp Emperor

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    So, to return to the original topic, the answer is "yes, they are".

    In fact, the opposite question "do trebs obsolete cats?" is more appropriate.

    And I'd say against cities, yes they do. However, there's still a primary use for catapults even after the advent of trebuchets:

    With their higher base strength they're better suited for attacking Stacks of Dooms.

    Specialization is, as always, key; so building Trebs with +45% vs city as city-busters and building Cats with +% strength and collateral damage as SOD-busters is ideal if you can afford it!
     
  18. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    I usually have a Barrage I/II catapult lying around somewhere...for precisely that purpose. I love using artillery in the field, especially since a single suicidial cat will typically ensure three or four victories to follow. It has achieved the highest honor any unit can achieve in my army: the Medal of Cost-Effectiveness. :)
     
  19. colony

    colony Slow Typer

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    Trying to do enough damage to Protective Longbows to not lose half your army when you attack feels a bit like bashing your head against a brick wall if you don't have Trebs to me. Catapults are far less efficient at taking cities.

    That's why you bring two per city, normally it gives you good enough odds, and spies are cheap to build.
     
  20. Underdawg

    Underdawg King

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    But then you really got to weigh your options... should I crank out that extra maceman/treb or build a two spies...
     

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