Are you a USA conservative, do you favour a default ?

[civ_king]

Small request: You know how to break up quotes and respond to individual sentences, please do so.

Huh? The rate of increase in population growth of "native" Europeans may be dropping a bit, but it is still a rate of increase.

I'm talking about working aged, there will be a deficit of workers due to aging of the native population, there wont be enough tax money to fund the geezers, so immigration, cut benefits or tax the workers to death causing an even lower birthrate.

Give it time, we have barely had a full generation of Middle Eastern Immigration into Europe. Heck, there were still some fairly powerful 'Know-Nothing' parties in America two or three generations after the bulk of the Irish moved over here.

The difference is that the Turks really only marry Turks, frequently bring spouses from Turkey. They frequently go back to Turkey in the summer and are exposed to Turkish media back in Austria. Erdogan for example said “Assimilation is a crime against humanity.” Were the Irish extremely anti-assimilation?

But they still have them. Expanding beyond the lowest of the low, federal workers are generaly paid less in wages then people doing comprable work in the private sector.

Correct

 

[MobBoss]

As a neutral observer I see both parties at fault, but the Republicans seem to not want to budge on anything.

Thats largely because they see the debt situation as dire and its gotten significantly worse under the current administration.

 

[mrt144]

Thats largely because they see the debt situation as dire and its gotten significantly worse under the current administration.

Why don't Republicans want to take any responsibility or action then?

 

[MobBoss]

Why don't Republicans want to take any responsibility or action then?

How are they not taking responsibility by holding onto their ideals?

And they are taking action. How can you say they arent?

 

[mrt144]

How are they not taking responsibility by holding onto their ideals?

And they are taking action. How can you say they arent?

It's interesting that being non pragmatic is considered a party ideal now.

And I don't call being stubborn, non committal, non negotiable taking action. I call it being a stick in the mud for no good reason.

 

[MobBoss]

It's interesting that being non pragmatic is considered a party ideal now.

And I don't call being stubborn, non committal, non negotiable taking action. I call it being a stick in the mud for no good reason.

So standing up for ones ideal on how things should be done is now just being a stick in the mud?

I see.

Like I said earlier, this has been ongoing since before the GOP even held the house. It's a bed the Dems have made themselves....let them deal to get out of it.

 

[SimSimSalabim]

How are they not taking responsibility by holding onto their ideals?

And they are taking action. How can you say they arent?

Republicans are letting their strange tax ideals take the country hostage. If America defaults in August, the US won't recover economically until the next decade. This is a game of poker that no one would win. Can't the Republicans just take a deal of around perhaps 1-2 trillion in cuts and let tax revenue increase by 400 billion?

 

[mrt144]

So standing up for ones ideal on how things should be done is now just being a stick in the mud?

I see.

Like I said earlier, this has been ongoing since before the GOP even held the house. It's a bed the Dems have made themselves....let them deal to get out of it.

The GOP is the party of self righteous country destruction, while democrats are willing to work on solutions to problems. I can see the GOP thriving on that kind of message.

The Democrats are willing to compromise where Republicans are not. So I can't really fault Democrats for not trying. You are faulting them exactly for that.

 

[Ajidica]

I'm talking about working aged, there will be a deficit of workers due to aging of the native population, there wont be enough tax money to fund the geezers, so immigration, cut benefits or tax the workers to death causing an even lower birthrate.

People get older, there is an influx in new immigrants due to opening jobs. I fail to see a problem here besides fear-mongering.

The difference is that the Turks really only marry Turks, frequently bring spouses from Turkey. They frequently go back to Turkey in the summer and are exposed to Turkish media back in Austria. Erdogan for example said “Assimilation is a crime against humanity.”

Is that any different from Irish sending money back home to bring their family over, or only marrying other Irish once they arrived in America?

Were the Irish extremely anti-assimilation?

As much as anyone else were at the time.

Correct

I'm honestly not sure what you are getting at here. Are you trying to conflate the Director of the CIA's salary to the wages of a fast food worker?

 

[Traitorfish]

Where do you think Europe is going to get the tens of millions of workers it needs in the next two decades? Where do you think Europe is going to get the 100 million+ workers over the next 50? Look at how well Muslims have integrated so far in Europe.

And the famine's over, so I should just go home, right? Spare me.

Is that any different from Irish sending money back home to bring their family over, or only marrying other Irish once they arrived in America?

Case in point, it wasn't until my parents generation that anybody in my family married outside of the Irish-Scots community- which only half of them did anyway- and that after we'd been here for a century.

Were the Irish extremely anti-assimilation?

Why not ask some Glaswegians:

 

[MobBoss]

The GOP is the party of self righteous country destruction, while democrats are willing to work on solutions to problems. I can see the GOP thriving on that kind of message.

The Democrats are willing to compromise where Republicans are not. So I can't really fault Democrats for not trying. You are faulting them exactly for that.

Increasing government at all levels isnt a solution to the problem, and that seems to be the sole democrat answer to everything.

The entire first two years of Obama's presidency the Democrats controlled everything and didnt desire any compromise at all since they didnt need to compromise. The minute the situation changes, and the GOP gets the house, now its all about compromise. Sounds like democrat hypocrisy to me.

 

[civ_king]

People get older, there is an influx in new immigrants due to opening jobs. I fail to see a problem here besides fear-mongering.

You are aware that a growing percentage of Europe is retired which means countries need more tax revenue, to get that revenue they need to have higher taxes and/or a larger tax base, further raising taxes will further decrease the tax base long term (fewer children). To increase a tax base they need more people, they need immigrants

Is that any different from Irish sending money back home to bring their family over, or only marrying other Irish once they arrived in America?

Yes, yes it is.

As much as anyone else were at the time.

Which is less than the Turks. Language can be an important part of cultural conservation, the Irish didn't really have a different language

I'm honestly not sure what you are getting at here. Are you trying to conflate the Director of the CIA's salary to the wages of a fast food worker?

TF though that since the average federal employee makes double what the average private sector employee gets that it is fine to slash their salaries. My point is that that is because there are fewer low paying jobs to bring down the average, also there is a higher amount of highly educated people. Finally the average public sector employee makes ~50% more, not 100% more.

 

[SuperJay]

Increasing government at all levels isnt a solution to the problem, and that seems to be the sole democrat answer to everything.

That's both patently false and doesn't have anything to do with the point at hand - and you know it. Spare us the slogans and Fox News memes and other party-line nonsense, you're more intelligent than that. This is about the budget, and both parties compromising to reach a workable solution. These days, "compromise" is unfortunately a bad word in conservative circles - even you yourself portray the GOP refusal to negotiate as "sticking to principles" rather than political games. You're willing to let the entire country slide into an economic ruin that will last years over a few politicians and their "principles?"

The entire first two years of Obama's presidency the Democrats controlled everything and didnt desire any compromise at all since they didnt need to compromise.

Again - that's just not true and you know it. Remember that whole Affordable Health Care Act thing? Compromised to the point of uselessness.

 

[mrt144]

Increasing government at all levels isnt a solution to the problem, and that seems to be the sole democrat answer to everything.

The entire first two years of Obama's presidency the Democrats controlled everything and didnt desire any compromise at all since they didnt need to compromise. The minute the situation changes, and the GOP gets the house, now its all about compromise. Sounds like democrat hypocrisy to me.

So you would reject a huge change that would save trillions of dollars because it's not Republican's responsibility as people in government to do the right thing?

And you have a terrible memory if you think Obama and Democrats could have done whatever they wanted 2009-2010.

 

[Ajidica]

You are aware that a growing percentage of Europe is retired which means countries need more tax revenue, to get that revenue they need to have higher taxes and/or a larger tax base, further raising taxes will further decrease the tax base long term (fewer children). To increase a tax base they need more people, they need immigrants

Still not seeing the problem. Immigrants come in and take up the slack.

Yes, yes it is.

Please elaborate, as I'm not seeing any functional difference between refusing to marry outside of your ethnic group, and going back home to get a wife of your culture.

Language can be an important part of cultural conservation, the Irish didn't really have a different language

Unfortunately youtube isn't working for me (all I get is a black box where the movie should be), but I encourage you: go do a search for "irish gaelic" and tell me how unique of a language that is. While Irish Gaelic may not have been widely spoken at that time in Irish history, their dialect was unique enough to almost be its own language. One of the major problems my mom had in doing family history research was that the Immigration Officials at Ellis Island couldn't understand what the people were speaking with regards to their name, so they wrote down just about anything.
Moving outside of the Irish who could (in theory) speak pigdin English, we have the Germans, Italians, Bavarians, Lithuanians, Poles, Swedes, and that one major group I am blanking out on all speaking their own language and not marrying outside of their own culture.

[qupte]Finally the average public sector employee makes ~50% more, not 100% more.[/QUOTE]
Not quite. The average public employee makes less their their private counterpart, but it is somewhat mitigated by better job security and a very nice pension plan.

 

[MobBoss]

That's both patently false and doesn't have anything to do with the point at hand - and you know it.

Its neither patently false, and dont speak for me, you dont have the right.

This is about the budget, and both parties compromising to reach a workable solution.

And I gurantee you compromise will occur. Just wait and see.

These days, "compromise" is unfortunately a bad word in conservative circles - even you yourself portray the GOP refusal to negotiate as "sticking to principles" rather than political games. You're willing to let the entire country slide into an economic ruin that will last years over a few politicians and their "principles?"

Nope. But just like the last time government was supposed to shut down, but was averted at the last minute, this will occur again. And again. And again. Because neither side will be willing to deal with the other for a longer-term solution to our problems, so short-term agreements will have to be the norm until the next election cycle and things change.

Again - that's just not true and you know it. Remember that whole Affordable Health Care Act thing? Compromised to the point of uselessness.

Again, dont speak for me. Dont presume hand-wringing on the part of the Dems to equate with ability by the GOP to really stop stuff if the Dems wanted to push things through. The Dems had total control at one point and could have made sweeping changes if they had so desired, but there were elements from withing their own party that balked at the idea.

 

[mrt144]

So the Republicans shouldn't play ball now because the Democrats considered their voice when crafting legislation years ago? Are you serious or are you just playing Devil's advocate?

 

[Traitorfish]

Which is less than the Turks. Language can be an important part of cultural conservation, the Irish didn't really have a different language

And yet they still managed to spend four years at war with the British state before breaking off and forming an independent republic, and this under the watch of a Prime Minister whose first language was Welsh, so apparently on neither count is it the be all and end all of social-political unity.

 

[MobBoss]

So the Republicans shouldn't play ball now because the Democrats considered their voice when crafting legislation years ago? Are you serious or are you just playing Devil's advocate?

I think its laughable to think the democrats considered the GOP voice while in charge of congress and having the oval office. Certainly not what I remember. What the Dems had to listen to was the more conservative parts of their own party. Those guys were the real toad in the road...not the GOP.

 

[civ_king]

Still not seeing the problem. Immigrants come in and take up the slack.

Immigrants don't normally try shifting the country towards their culture.

Please elaborate, as I'm not seeing any functional difference between refusing to marry outside of your ethnic group, and going back home to get a wife of your culture.

Is there a functional difference between fresh off the boat Chinese bride and second or third generation Chinese bride? Even 1.5 generation is different from first generation.

Unfortunately youtube isn't working for me (all I get is a black box where the movie should be), but I encourage you: go do a search for "irish gaelic" and tell me how unique of a language that is. While Irish Gaelic may not have been widely spoken at that time in Irish history, their dialect was unique enough to almost be its own language. One of the major problems my mom had in doing family history research was that the Immigration Officials at Ellis Island couldn't understand what the people were speaking with regards to their name, so they wrote down just about anything.
Moving outside of the Irish who could (in theory) speak pigdin English, we have the Germans, Italians, Bavarians, Lithuanians, Poles, Swedes, and that one major group I am blanking out on all speaking their own language and not marrying outside of their own culture.

Irish Gaelic was seriously on the decline by the Famine, partly due to the English frickin' trying to stomp it out

Not quite. The average public employee makes less their their private counterpart, but it is somewhat mitigated by better job security and a very nice pension plan.

Exactly

And yet they still managed to spend four years at war with the British state before breaking off and forming an independent republic, and this under the watch of a Prime Minister whose first language was Welsh, so apparently on neither count is it the be all and end all of social-political unity.

The British (mostly English) kinda stole the Irish's land so even if there are cultural similarities the British were still oppressors