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Are You Going to Watch the Debates?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Paul in Saudi, Jun 26, 2019.

?

Will You Watch?

  1. No

  2. Yes, Live

  3. Yes, afterwards

  4. I will wait for Jimmy Kimmel to tell me what happened.

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Naskra

    Naskra King

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    Just read it. Then we can speak on equal terms. You could substitute some knowledge for opinion. It would really help.
     
  2. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Deity

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    Yes they do we are all paying into the same system. That system has to find a way to make it work one way or another. Essentially once you realize that healthcare already is a communal game than this plan seems pretty straight forward the only reason it doesn't pass is corruption.

    The taxes for most will just be their health insurance moving over on the ledger. Same price, maybe cheaper.

    Doctors need to see a haircut. Ortho surgeons avg a million a year. That's absurd.
     
  3. Tristan_C

    Tristan_C Emperor

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    Hmm. If the legislative backing enjoyed by the AMA could be considered a lingering Guild system, I have to say this bill is like establishing the monarchy that should accompany such a thing. Just a few things from a glance, let me know what I am missing that you don't like:
    • It establishes a national budget for health care by tallying up everyone's requirements. That sounds easy. Details are left to the "Secretary" [of Health and Human Services].
    • It charges the Secretary with deciding how the providers are to be paid.
    • It abolishes private insurance, employee health benefits, and all the rest of that, even though most of these products are highly-rated in the US, basically because nothing related to your health care should lie outside of the purview of the Secretary.
    • It establishes a national health trust fund. The business of filling the fund is left to the Secretary, but presumably has something to do with the Medicare transition plan.
    • The medicare transition plan has a lot of cross referenced material and I'll be damned if I'm going to read and formulate summaries of what exactly is going on. And no lawmaker does, either. They hire kids to write these bills, pass them, and then figure out what's inside over time. Don't believe me? Follow the history of the ACA.
    But yeah in summary it establishes a new kingdom within the United States, whose borders are an amorphous industrial/service sector, ruled absolutely by the Secretary of HHS. That is not an exaggeration. It's literally what the bill does.

    By the way can anyone who likes government-run enterprises like this tell me how Ontario's government actually lost money ($42M) trying to sell weed?
     
  4. Naskra

    Naskra King

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    Something like that. The Sec of Health will be the most powerful person in the country; the ideal Ayn Rand villain.
     
  5. Naskra

    Naskra King

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    I didn't read that stuff either. But I'm left wondering if congress has any obligation to pay the Sec's proposed budget.
     
  6. Zkribbler

    Zkribbler Deity

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    You've never read any enabling legislation, have you? At least since the New Deal, all legislation is written like this. Then there's a whole supporting system of committees, bureaucracies, etc. To say this sets up a "kingdom" is dopey.

    Trump, who has far more power than any of these kings, can't even build his stupid wall.
     
  7. Naskra

    Naskra King

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    My consistent advice is: Read the bill, then have an opinion.
     
  8. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    Many people on Medicare have private supplemental insurance since Medicare pays 80%

    will that be abolished too?
     
  9. Naskra

    Naskra King

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    Yep.
    One Plan to rule them all, One Plan to find them, One Plan to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
     
    Hygro likes this.
  10. Tristan_C

    Tristan_C Emperor

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    If the law were passed right now, one sixth of the national output of the US would be placed under the personal control of Donald Trump and his appointees. Go ahead and let me know if you're on board with this.
     
  11. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Deity

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    Threats like this is exactly why the GOP does not deserve to govern a Chucky Cheese location. Intentionally tanking programs and running the government into the crapper should not be the platform of a political party yet here we are.
     
    hobbsyoyo likes this.
  12. Arwon

    Arwon

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    Right so it creates a proper healthcare system and the overarching principles for governing it, oooh, scarymonsters.

    Better get your guns and build the barricades
     
    hobbsyoyo and Estebonrober like this.
  13. Naskra

    Naskra King

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    It creates nothing. It will only destroy what's extant.
     
  14. Arwon

    Arwon

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    M8 you used the terms "establish" like five times make up your mind which mutually exclusive kind of paranoia you're going with. Get some consistency up into ya.
     
    Synsensa and hobbsyoyo like this.
  15. Naskra

    Naskra King

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    Might be twenty years since I typed "establish". Feels good to be back.
     
  16. Arwon

    Arwon

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    I'd just like you to understand how incredibly funny this grave somber doom-laden intonation is. How absurd these dark pants-pissing warnings about the creation of a functional health system are, for everyone who lives in countries that already have one.

    "Not only are they going to have a public healthcare system, they're going to have a health department and SOMEONE CHARGED WITH OVERSEEING IT"
     
    Hygro, Synsensa, Socrates99 and 3 others like this.
  17. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    Shocking isn't it.

    Is Australia officially ahead of the USA now in lifestyle/average earnings?
     
  18. Arwon

    Arwon

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    Hard to compare directly. They have more disposable income on average, but it's distributed terribly so there's a lot more in the hands of their super rich while our respective PPP median disposable incomes are pretty similar.

    They obviously have to spend twice as big a share of their national income (17% vs 9%) on health as we do, and a lot of their disposable income is tied up in private health insurance, whereas for us health is obviously mostly out of taxes.

    (I should note our health system has some big non-socialised or limited-socialisation exclusions, like dental, mental health and some kinds of necessary but not life-saving surgery, which are hard to access affordably without private insurance. We're not an all-in socialised healthcare system because conservatism)

    On the other hand, a lot of stuff is quite spenno here, especially food and drink and energy (electricity and road fuels), which are generally super cheap in America. Likewise a lot of mid range cities in the US have super cheap houses which you don't find in any of our cities.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  19. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    Sounds similar to us, economy if scale and large size in Aussies case.

    I was thinking about best country to live in and Aussie was on that list along with Scandinavia.

    I wouldn't move to America with free ticket and green card. I think our countries effectively have open borders.

    Uncle's baby got sick in 90s, didn't make it but 250k was spent, cost to him 0 (stress, indirect costs like travel etc). He moved over there in 80s married Aussie lady, still there he's an Aussie now.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  20. Commodore

    Commodore Technology of Peace

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    No, it's not. If it were absurd, they wouldn't be making that kind of money. People are paid what the market will bear for their job.

    Also, good luck trying to cut their pay. Do it and they'll just stop practicing medicine. You can't force them to provide healthcare to you.
     
    Hygro likes this.

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