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Are You Going to Watch the Debates?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Paul in Saudi, Jun 26, 2019.

?

Will You Watch?

  1. No

  2. Yes, Live

  3. Yes, afterwards

  4. I will wait for Jimmy Kimmel to tell me what happened.

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    The fantasy that there aren't wait lists and long delays for treatment in the US is delusional.
     
    Estebonrober and Socrates99 like this.
  2. Arwon

    Arwon

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    This is an extremely silly argument when the US spends about 17% of its GDP on healthcare currently. Like, you're spending more on defence AND on healthcare than normal countries, already. Here's healthcare as a portion of total economy:

    upload_2019-9-18_10-7-4.png
    About 9% of this 17% is government spending, which is already higher for the US than any other country. The remainder is mostly compulsory private spending.

    By contrast, defence is about 3% of GDP for the US and 1% to 2% in other countries. That extra 1 or 2% isn't exactly the dealbreaker here. Every other country in the OECD could match US' excessive defence spending, and still be spending a lot less on health + defence than the US is doing currently.

    Also, do you think the United States is the only federation in the world? Canada, Australia, Germany, Switzerland are all also federations and in many cases those federations' states or provinces are heavily involved in healthcare delivery for constitutional reasons. Certainly that's the case in Canada and Australia, which are both basically just the USA but better run anyway.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
  3. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    we're probably the fattest country, maybe we just need more health care
     
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  4. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    I've had friends feel sick eating food in the USA. Niece went to Disneyland and she commented on bad US food as well.

    I've heard milk and cheese and breakfast cereak in particular are really bad. Overly processed junk. I don't mind Bud but even the beer is sweet.

    Even if ingredients are decent it fried, sugared, salted, or cheesed to death.

    Long life milk is standard milk over there? Lasts 6 weeks something like that.
     
  5. Commodore

    Commodore Technology of Peace

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    The problem is how much worse those wait times are going to get if the government takes over. You want a good look at what government healthcare in the US would look like? Take a look at the VA. And they don't even have to service the entire population, only about 1% and they can't even handle that right.

    Not only are the wait times horrible, but so is the quality of care. They attract substandard doctors and nurses because the federal government pays well below private sector averages for those same positions. That's why even though I get free healthcare from the VA, I still pay to go to a private doctor. Of course now I can see any doctor I want and the VA has to pay for it thanks to that new law.
     
    Sommerswerd likes this.
  6. Arwon

    Arwon

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    OK now bear with me because: that's how it is here! But for everyone!
     
  7. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    Doctors cheap here, $25 USD full price if you're "rich".

    Health card cuts costs.

    And you can go private it's half the price if USA.

    Are you opposed to free visits to doctors for children?
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  8. mitsho

    mitsho Deity

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    Public Health is just a gigantic topic so you guys should probably be more precise f.e. which procedures should be covered and how. Knee surgeries were brought up above. One big problem the US is having - if I remember right - is that emergency rooms are open for everyone, while normal household doctors are not. That's the most expensive way to handle that.

    Also, I get sick seeing all those gofundme's and how people are willingly giving instead of demanding change by the government....
     
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  9. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    The problem with US healthcare isn't quality really, its cost.
     
    Hygro likes this.
  10. Commodore

    Commodore Technology of Peace

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    Yeah, but the key difference is anything our government touches, aside from the military, turns to absolute dog crap.
     
  11. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    I don't know about that man, we've got some pretty good government run institutions here and there. We've got some pretty well run programs at state-Universities don't we? Urban Meyer was, afterall a State employee for example ;).

    Also... part of the military's non-dog-crappiness has to be attributed to the completely lopsided amount of money that gets put into it. It's easier to have the finest military in the world when you spend more money than everyone else in the world combined on military. But if the government adopted that approach to every department, program, project, etc., that they ran... well... I don't think folks would embrace or even tolerate that approach quite the way they do when it comes to the military. In fact, there's certainly an argument that the reason "anything else the government touches" isn't working out as well as the military is precisely because we spend all the resources on the military so there's inadequate resources left to run other things in no-dog-crap fashion.
     
    Hygro, mitsho and hobbsyoyo like this.
  12. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

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    Depends on where and what you're eating as per the usual, I'd guess. You can certainly find bad milk, bad cheese product(like Velveeta, not actually cheese!), crap cereal, and fried stuff. I'd guess it's worse around touristy traps as anything decent for you is going to cost a fortune there.
     
  13. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

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    Which is why the Pentagon can't pass an audit, blows billions on no bid contracts and "loses" pallet loads of money. Sure the quality of the military is good but its spending is a joke. I'd argue that there are plenty of Gov't institutions that function better in spite of conservative efforts to tank them. USPS is a good example.
     
  14. Arwon

    Arwon

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    There's some products which are just, across the board, quite different. Some are taste based (many US sliced bread loafs are quite sweet), some are biological (US lamb is generally bigger and less intense in flavour) but a big factor is the use of corn syrup rather than cane sugar as a sweetener. Another factor is production rules - chlorine washed chicken being among the most notorious.
     
  15. Owen Glyndwr

    Owen Glyndwr La Femme Moderne

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    I mean, say what you will about the VA (and you're perfectly entitled to do so given your personal experience with the institution), but it pulled a 78% satisfaction rating from its users in a gallup survey in 2015, which is the highest of any healthcare plan type in the US. Second was medicare at 77%, then medicaid at 76%, then Union-provided-insurance at 70%. In a more recent survey from gallup in 2018, of Medicare/Medicaid recipients 79% were happy with the quality of the care received, and 79% were satisfied with coverage, which is ~comparable with private plans - 85% satisfied with quality of care, but 70% satisfied with coverage. The big difference, frankly, is in costs - 71% satisfied with costs versus 50% on private plans.

    So maybe you have had bad experiences with the VA, and certainly the conventional wisdom is that the subsidized healthcare plans in the US are trash fires, but the data doesn't tend to bear that out - in terms of quality and coverage satisfaction it typically rates comparably to private plans, and in cost it obviously crushes private plans.
     
  16. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    Yeah, we do Patient sat studies for the VA and they score pretty well. Unfortunately I can't disclose anything more specific. ;)
     
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  17. Arwon

    Arwon

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    Also there's no reason that a universal health insurance system needs to alter much about the actual administration of hospitals or doctors. It's just a change to how it gets paid for. People blur health insurance/coverage/funding and healthcare services delivery together a lot, but they're not the same thing.

    When I say "that's how it is here! But for everyone!" about going to any doctor and it being paid for, that's what I mean. GPs and allied care are mostly, or entirely, private practices, they don't work for some centralised agency. We just go to whichever doctor for our appointments, and the payment is done by processing a charge to Medicare (sometimes paying a bit on top of that because incomplete socialisation, but that's trivial to this point).

    So it's a complete furphy to say "oh but our government is special bad we're so exceptional" because as far as seeing a doctor goes, literally all we're talking about with universal coverage is a payment system that ensures everyone has access to health services.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
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  18. Arwon

    Arwon

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    It's honestly mostly just that everything costs heaps. Americans don't access healthcare more, it just costs more when they do.
     
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  19. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    Our crappy diets certainly don't help. I don't think any other country has our diabetes incidence, but I'd have to look it up.
     
  20. Arwon

    Arwon

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    rah likes this.

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