Are you guys sure about that? (Byzantium Oligarchy)

[ShakaKhan]

So I'm having fun with the crazy strategy of Byzantium and getting all the combat strength boosts: +3 from founding a religion, another +3 from making my first target be someone who founded a religion (and possibly more after that), +4 for having all units next to Tagma, +4 from oligarchy, using that +14 (or+10) to eliminate units around cities to convert them and get the fat +10 from Crusade to just melt through the opposition, further enhanced by cavalry doing full damage to cities (as they've converted.) I also think that running the Wars of Religion card could be beneficial; while you won't get the bonus after the city is converted (to stack with Crusade), you will get a bonus in eliminating the units to cause the conversion.

But here's the thing: I just got Divine Right and I plan on just hippodrome-printing a mass of Tagmata in conjunction with running the cavalry production card for a few supplementary units. There's really no need to have a mixed military force as the heavy cavalry can do everything and have several boosts in doing so, the other classes of units can't keep up anyway. But all of the Civtubers say you want Oligarchy to stack some extra combat strength with Basil's other bonuses. But Oligarchy (and the permanent option to run Oligarchic Legacy) give a bonus of "All land melee, anti-cavalry, and naval melee class units gain +4 Combat Strength." So the question (and a few Byzantium related questions) are:

1.) If I'm just spamming Tagma (and upgraded versions), Oligarchy is a waste, right?
2.) I was thinking that once Cuirassier become available, it would be optimal to leave a few Tagma not upgraded, and use as great generals (in conjunction with the real great generals) to give their +4 combat bonus to the Cuirassier. Is this the standard Byzantium strategy?
3.) If a city has an encampment (and stable, armory, etc.) first and then builds a hippodrome and its buildings, do the free heavy cavalry get the XP bonus?
4.) Is there any way to differentiate between the heavy cavalry that are resource-free from hippodromes vs. the cavalry that are built or bought and are costing resources?
5.) Once a resource-free unit upgrades, it doesn't retain it's resource-free bonus, right? Most applicably to resource-consuming units...

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

You are indeed right, oligarchy is kind of a waste on byzantium. Cavalry units are the way to go, so stick with that.
Dunno which youtubers you follow, but most of them are kind of.... full of it at a certain point.

You dont necessarily stack bonuses for the sake of it, you stack the bonuses that are natural to stack and go from there. Oligarchy is nice, but mostly for the melee and archers before you hit heavy chariots and horsemen.

 

[ShakaKhan]

Thanks. Just thought of something else:

6.) In regards to differentiating between hippodrome-printed resource-free units and hard-built/bought units, does the unit retain "resource-freedom" if it corps with another unit and if so, does it matter if the resource-free unit is the one that forms the corps vs. the unit that is selected to join the corps?

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

Thanks. Just thought of something else:

6.) In regards to differentiating between hippodrome-printed resource-free units and hard-built/bought units, does the unit retain "resource-freedom" if it corps with another unit and if so, does it matter if the resource-free unit is the one that forms the corps vs. the unit that is selected to join the corps?

Unsure of that actually.
Honestly I think the hippodrome printing is a bit overrated at times.
The reason being that in my own playstyle, I try to hit a timing attack - I have pre-built Heavy chariots and horsemen to take advantage of crusade the moment my religion is established and my first missionary converts some enemy outpost cities to gain a foothold.
Heavy chariots/horsemen almost become like "knights in the classical Era" this way, and are very hard for the AI to stop if you can hit that point early.
I simply dont have time to build and waste district slots on hippodromes, the point is to snowball fast before the ai starts teching too far ahead, instead just pillaging mines on the way and using the pillaged gold to upgrade units.

I'll try to see if resource free corps can be created the next time I play them though, if nothing but for curiosity's sale.

 

[Victoria]

Thanks. Just thought of something else:

6.) In regards to differentiating between hippodrome-printed resource-free units and hard-built/bought units, does the unit retain "resource-freedom" if it corps with another unit and if so, does it matter if the resource-free unit is the one that forms the corps vs. the unit that is selected to join the corps?

Did you ever find out?.
My understanding is everything from each is now retained but resource free. This indicates no merge list but a “let’s just clone everything” coding approach.

 

[ShakaKhan]

Did you ever find out?

Not with certainty. Finished the aggression of that game with Cuirrassier corps carpet bulldozing, and with the game inconsistently updating some yields immediately while other yields update the next turn, coupled with at that time in the game a massive change every turn in the empire-wide GPT generation, wasn't paying close enough attention. If I was still aggressive when tanks rolled around it would have been easier to track as the resource-consuming units are a pain in the neck. Also I shifted from Domination victory to Religious victory which, BTW, Byzantium can be really sneaky about - someone else DoW's you, you then march fast moving cavalry units with extra combat bonuses and great general bonuses through their territory, get a bunch of bonus yields from pillaging, and convert all their cities by eliminating their units - none of this "stop converting me" nonsense.

 

[Alex Vance]

5.) Once a resource-free unit upgrades, it doesn't retain it's resource-free bonus, right? Most applicably to resource-consuming units...

No unit created by a hippodrome will ever cost a resource-per-turn except gold. Tagma produced freely by hippodrome will never cost Iron; tagmata upgraded into tanks will never cost oil-per-turn, either. Upgrading the "free" unit will not make it cost a resource like a normally created unit.

As for mixing normal, "built" units with free, instant hippodrome units in the same squad? I'll check.

EDIT: Mixing any number of oil-free Hippodrome tanks with normally built, oil-per-turn tanks will negate the oil-per-turn cost for the entire unit, even if you mix 2 regular tanks with one Hippodrome tank; this will create an oil-free Tank Army. Just make sure to combine the two regular tanks first, before combining with the Hippodrome tank. This makes it possible to stretch oil to an impressive degree as Basil II.

Good news for Byzantium. Late game, you're basically only limited by gold income (and perhaps Uranium).

EDIT 2: "does it matter if the resource-free unit is the one that forms the corps vs. the unit that is selected to join the corps?"

Based on my experiment, no, it doesn't. I would make it a habit to always select the free unit as the "initiator" when combining, just because I'm paranoid. But the oil cost was negated when I initiated with a normally-built tank, too. I don't think it matters, but I'd err on the side of caution until I was 200% sure.

 

[ShakaKhan]

No unit created by a hippodrome will ever cost a resource-per-turn except gold. Tagma produced freely by hippodrome will never cost Iron; tagmata upgraded into tanks will never cost oil-per-turn, either. Upgrading the "free" unit will not make it cost a resource like a normally created unit.

As for mixing normal, "built" units with free, instant hippodrome units in the same squad? I'll check.

EDIT: Mixing any number of oil-free Hippodrome tanks with normally built, oil-per-turn tanks will negate the oil-per-turn cost for the entire unit, even if you mix 2 regular tanks with one Hippodrome tank; this will create an oil-free Tank Army. Just make sure to combine the two regular tanks first, before combining with the Hippodrome tank. This makes it possible to stretch oil to an impressive degree as Basil II.

Good news for Byzantium. Late game, you're basically only limited by gold income (and perhaps Uranium).

EDIT 2: "does it matter if the resource-free unit is the one that forms the corps vs. the unit that is selected to join the corps?"

Based on my experiment, no, it doesn't. I would make it a habit to always select the free unit as the "initiator" when combining, just because I'm paranoid. But the oil cost was negated when I initiated with a normally-built tank, too. I don't think it matters, but I'd err on the side of caution until I was 200% sure.

Wow, thanks. Now the only issue is keeping track of which is which