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are you still enjoying the Policy Card system?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by darkace77450, Apr 21, 2017.

  1. darkace77450

    darkace77450 Chieftain

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    I'm dusting the game off after a month-long hiatus and I'm realizing how much I disliked the policy card system. My problems with it are twofold.

    1. There aren't very balanced. The economic policy cards are far more important than military, diplomacy, and wild cards. For the latter three there aren't a whole lot of meaningful choices. The former, though, requires vigilant micromanaging if you're going to get the most out of your game. Which brings me to point number 2.

    2. It's tedious. Swapping policy cards in and out to maximize your efficiency is a tedious affair and I'm not sure what it's bringing to the table is interesting enough to justify the tedium. The old social policy trees weren't very exiting, but they didn't detract from or interrupt the flow of the game (imbalance of Rationalism notwithstanding) the way social policy cards do, in my opinion.

    So those of my thoughts on policy cards after a four week hiatus. Do you agree or disagree with my assessment? If you agree, what would you like to see done to improve this particular mechanic?
     
  2. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    I disagree. I agree that economic cards are the best though. But there are some military cards that are awesome. And frankly, some of the diplomatic cards are great as well. Just pick your governments accordingly and enhance it with wonders or great people if possible. You do know that wild card slots can hold all kinds of cards, right? I like the micromanagement and timing aspect of the cards in contrast to older civ games, especially the permanent civ V system that didn't allow any change. I switched governments a lot in civ III and IV, can't remember for earlier titles. Now I don't switch governments any more, but cards. It's much simpler and easier to do. I don't find it tedious at all. But the cards are unbalanced, some of them are still unused after hundreds of hours of playing - like the double experience for scouts, doubled theatre district adjacency bonus, + Great Musician Points or the spy card that gives -1 amenity.

    Hey, maybe what we really need are elimination threads for economic, military and diplomatic cards -.-
     
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  3. The_Quasar

    The_Quasar Chieftain

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    I agree with your assessment and tactics. There are many cards I never use, including the ones you mention. There are others I use all the time (like 50% off updates).

    Personally, I like the cards... even if they are rather unbalanced. They have far more potential than previous schemes. I look forward to when they get a major revision, I think they could then be really good.
     
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  4. agonistes

    agonistes wants his subs under ice!

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    I think the policy card system is fantastic.

    I sometimes think it would be neat to make it so that once you used a policy, you couldn't reuse it if you swapped it out.

    Or, once a card was in, it stayed in. Forever. It would make the decisions more meaningful, certainly. Although, there have been a number of instance where I forgot to make a switch.
     
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  5. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I disagree that military and diplomatic cards are not that good... I love playing Germany for the extra red slot and I am always swapping green cards

    I think I am in a minority of one in that I find the civic tree dull because it uses the same tree structure as the techs while in v it was different
     
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  6. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Civ IV Emperor EQM Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    I disagree, I love the system and the concept. Much more nuanced than the slider from Civ IV but still a way to enmphasise certain things e.g. Production, Commerce etc. Sure there is some work to be done balancing all the cards but it's far superior to Civ V's fixed system.
     
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  7. The_Quasar

    The_Quasar Chieftain

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    You are certainly not in a minority of one, as I agree that the civic tree is dull for similar reasons.

    I often swap around cards too, that can be soooo handy! Lol, I play Germany sometimes (I like to use many different civs, keeps the game fresher), but it feels a bit like cheating with the extra military slot! Can be very useful though!
     
  8. Leyrann

    Leyrann Warlord

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    I find it a bit dull too, but that's just because you unlock so little apart from cards and envoys. Only every now and then a wonder and the ED and TS buildings. I'd want to see some more units and districts/buildings in there, and maybe some cards in the tech tree (you could, for example, make is so Caravanaries unlocks with Currency, to name one).
     
  9. smvalentine

    smvalentine Chieftain Supporter

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    I see it as somewhat tedious. Especially the practice of researching several civics down to one turn so you can swap cards on consecutive turns. That just feels artificial. It seems silly to lose some abilities once you've gained them. I would replace it with some sort of political capital point system. I think I would incorporate turmoil after big changes. I haven't thought it out though.
     
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  10. SupremacyKing2

    SupremacyKing2 Warlord

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    I love the policy cards. My only issue is that there is almost no choice at the start since you basically pick the same starting cards every time.
     
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  11. devonitar

    devonitar Chieftain

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    In a way it allows some kind of customization and flexibility, but some of them are really situational and I've never used them. Plus, at the beginning and before I figured out which ones are the most optimal, I was incredibly overwhelmed by their sheer amount.
     
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  12. LordBalkoth

    LordBalkoth Chieftain

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    Agreed. And unlike Civ V, the civic tree unlocks buildings and wonders too -- so it's like they literally just split the tech tree in half.
     
  13. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

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    I like the structure much better than shear accumulation of bonuses. I like planning what to use when. But I also agree it could use some balancing. And with better balance, a limit of, say, 2 or 3 uses per card would add another interesting layer.

    An elimination thread for each type of card could be amusing (but not all at once, please).
     
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  14. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    I love the social policy card system in VI. Best government set up in Civ ever :D

    I think some balancing is still possibly needed; but it all depends on what victory type you're prioritising, to what cards you'll use.
     
  15. Zuizgond

    Zuizgond Chieftain

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    I don't like the current policy system. Each slot should be locked for minimum 30 turns (normal speed), making decisions more relevant and impactful.
     
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  16. CPWimmer

    CPWimmer Chieftain

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    I strongly disagree with your assessment. I love the Policy system and think that it is one of the best things that Civ 6 added to the series.

    I agree that there are balance issues - both in the cards themselves, and the slot types overall. While I do think that there are good cards in all of the categories there are certainly more in some categories then others. In addition, as just about everyone agrees, there are certainly some great cards that are almost always better then their alternatives. There are also some clunkers out there that no one ever uses that could really use some help. I hope that Firaxis will tune some of the specifics of the Policy cards over time, but I think that the system itself is great!

    While it CAN be a lot of work to "maximize your efficiency" of the Policy system, this is a decision that each player can make individually. The system allows, but doesn't require, you to min-max every time you gain a new Civic. Sure you can switch cards every time, and even optimize things further by manipulating the way you navigate the Civics tree to time discoveries down to the exact turn you want to switch your Policies - but that is entirely optional!

    If you don't take all of that extra "tedious" time to analyze and swap Policy cards each time, you can still benefit from the Policy Card system. You can just leave them alone completely, only performing maintenance as you gain new slots or Policies become obsolete. Or you can just change them every so often as the great ones come along, allowing you to get incremental benefit but not having to worry about the most efficient (but time consuming) way to win the game. Both options are available to you as less time intensive alternatives to still get something out of the system.

    Almost every aspect of Civ 6 will take more of your time to maximize your efficiency (analyzing the optimal district placement, timing research across multiple techs to maximize the value of each eureka, etc.) if you want to play that way. This is time trade off is not isolated to the extra flexibility that the Policy system gives you. However, the choice of how much time to invest in each one of these systems is yours.
     
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  17. isau

    isau Warlord

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    I like the idea of the policy card system but not certain aspects of the implementation. My specific issues:
    • The policies are extremely difficult to distinguish from each other at a glance, because every card looks so similar. In my mod I created some "emojis" in the card names to help break up the screen a little, but it only helps so much. It's frustrating that stuff like Pantheons have their own icons, but the system that really needs it does not.
    • As the game progresses I end up just "okaying" the same set of Policies without thought because the idea of scouring the huge list of Policies to find a good one is too time consuming. The positions of the Policies constantly shifts, so even if you know exactly where the Policy was a moment ago, it could easily now have moved and you have to read until you find it, again due to no icons.
    • I greatly dislike the "build this type of thing faster" cards. What those cards result in in my experience is periods where you build just one kind of unit, then another kind of unit. Then you start getting to the cards that specify a specific era for each type of unit, but the tech tree may be progressing slower or faster than the civics tree, so you may not actually have said unit yet.
    • Cards that do literally the same thing but at a different tier do not have similar names. Just call it Agoge 1, 2, and 3. That instantly communicates exactly what the card does. The "creative" naming makes it very hard to tell what it is at a glance. It's even worse when you're looking at the list of "obsoleted policies" with nothing to go on but the name.
    • Worst offending card by far: the 50% off Settlers one, which touches off a wave of cities rushing Settlers to take advantage of lowered costs. It's just a dull period of the game. I really wish this card did something different.

    What I think the Policy system needs:
    • Active abilities that you can slot in to respond to a situation. E.g. the ability to perform spell-like tasks (but explained in-genre) on the map like expend Faith for a chance to grow a random Resource on a tile, heal a unit, destroy or create a road, etc. I'm looking into the possibility of doing it with mods, but the lack of a DLL makes it a big challenge. But I do think the key here is "active." If you've played the Age of Wonders series you can understand what I mean about active, map-based spell like abilities.
    • More cards that are responsive to terrain (there's virtually no policies specific to building a sea empire).
    • More cards that are responsive to specific situations. E.g. a policy card that specifically gives a bonus to attacking a capital city. That is useful situationally and meets the criteria the game is trying to establish.
     
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  18. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

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    The idea behind the policy cards and governments is great, but the execution is lacking.

    My main issue with the policy card system is actually how frequently you can switch them out. Choices for policy cards are almost meaningless if you get a free switch every 5-15 turns or so. You don't get to live with the consequences long enough to appreciate the weight of any given policy card choice.

    Many of them passively build up points behind the screens....a nice trickle, but a dull one.

    And many of them are entirely situational.

    (And the UI remains terrible. Every time I go back to that screen, I have to read the tiny text on those ugly-color blob cards. They should use highlighting or animation or *something* to make those cards distinguishable. Maybe with a Hearthstone elemental crackle even.)
     
  19. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    Agreed. You'd think the cards would rank alphabetically to make finding them quick.
    Having the ability to break the list down into even smaller categories than the current 3 may be worth Firaxis's time to implement. i.e. A tab that only shows cards that double adjacency bonuses; a tab that only shows all cards that cut down production times; etc
     
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  20. Jaybe

    Jaybe civus fanaticus Supporter

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    This!
     

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