# Army Question

#### CIVPhilzilla

##### Reagan Republican
I read that in C3C that armies get some kind of attack and defensive bonus in addition to a new movement point. Though I created a army today of tanks and got no attack/defense bonuses. Did they remove this in a patch? Is the bonus applied but not shown in the ADM stats. I had all the army related small wonders (Military Academy, Heroic Epic, and Pentagon.) Please enlighten me on what is going on with the armies in C3C

#### Justus II

##### General Staff
There is a bonus, but it does not show up in the A/D/M stats. As described, the bonus should be one-sixth of the attack and defense factors initially, going up to one-fourth after Military Academy. The question that was discussed when it first came out was whether that was 1/6 of the currently attacking/defending unit in the army, or 1/6 of the total of all the attack factors in the army (in effect, making it 1/2 of the average attack factor). Someone ran some tests, and it seemed to be the latter.

For example, in a cav army of 3 cavalry (attack 6, easily divisible), does the one-sixth mean a plus 1 bonus (1/6*6) or a plus 3 bonus (1/6*[3*6]). Based on the tests, it seemed to be the plus 3. Effectively, it is equal to 1/2 the average attack factor for a 3-unit army. When you move into a 4-unit army, assuming you also have military academy, it is a bonus of (1/4*[4*6])=6, or equal to the average attack factor. Very powerful. However, other than the one set of tests, I don't remember reading a definitive statement of which way it is calculated, and since it is not visible, it will probably lead to endless speculation!

#### tomart109

##### Perspicacious
And what about the army's Defense, and what if there are two or three different units? The calculations get kinda messy...(especially since they don't show you the numbers they're using!)

I like your rough guideline - about 1/2 the average attack factor. So, if I have a three-Legion (6-5-1) army in RoR, it would attack with about 9 or so? That's good, against the Carthaginian Numidian's 3, and their elephant's 2...

#### Ramalhão

##### Warlord
As Justus said, army will give 1/6 to attack and defense of unit currently in use. No matter how many units you're using nor if there are different units in any army.

#### EddyG17

##### King
Any one tried to put load a army into another army?

#### Roi du Culture

##### Bohemian Protecter
I tried that once, and i think it may be a bug...i have 1.0 so there are a lot of those. I was playing as Mcedon in RoR, and built an army within an army with an army, and plus 6 other heavy calvary. What firepower! They were unstoppable, and I conquered all of Italy before I ran out of Hopilites to guard with. I later used it against the Persians, and then the Scythians, and then the Carthaginians. By the end of the game, that triple-army had made me the ruler of the medieterranian-as my only offensive unit in the field of battle!

#### Justus II

##### General Staff
I have looked again through the forum (I can't wait for search to be re-enabled) and I cant' find the thread where it discussed testing the army bonus. But as it was described, it was in fact 1/6 of the Total attack strength of the units in the army, but then it is applied to the attack strength of the individual unit doing the fighting. That may be wrong, but as I said, based on some early testing, that is what it was doing, and I haven't seen any definitive statement one way or the other since.

#### MattII

##### Prince
A question I have is, if a unit (eg jav' thrower) has the enslave ability does the army get the enslave ability or not? Does this apply to wheeled units, bombard units, cloaked units, etc.

#### lbhhh

##### King
Yes, but not all abilities.

In the Sengoku scenario I had an army of Ninjas, who kept their stealth attack, but am pretty sure they lost their hidden nationality trait.

Also in the same scenario, I had a Samurai Arquebusier army which lost its bombard ability.

#### sealman

##### Hater of Babylonians
I would think that they still have teh hidden nationality trait, but the army unit is not.

#### Commander Bello

##### Say No 2 Net Validations
Another improvement is, that armies gain more hitpoints than the sum of the single units hitpoints are.
I currently have an army of three Ancient Cavalries, (2 elite, 1 veteran) which has a total of 17 hitpoints

#### Zeekater

##### hasn't been using drugs
An all paratrooper army cannot paradrop.
But an all marine army can make amphibious assaults.
I'm going to try the armies in armies thing myself though, seems fun.

#### socralynnek

Originally posted by Commander Bello
Another improvement is, that armies gain more hitpoints than the sum of the single units hitpoints are.
I currently have an army of three Ancient Cavalries, (2 elite, 1 veteran) which has a total of 17 hitpoints

That's not more than the single hitpoints because Ancient Cavs already have +1 HP

#### Commander Bello

##### Say No 2 Net Validations
Why do the guys from the Saarland always stay true? :-\

#### trumpeteer

##### Player of Trumpet
An army within an army...

Gotta try that. Does it work in C3C without negative side effects?

An army consisting of 3 armies consisting of 9 armies consisting of 27 armies consisting of 81 Cavalry... I gotta finish the military academy.

#### sealman

##### Hater of Babylonians
Originally posted by trumpeteer
An army within an army...

Gotta try that. Does it work in C3C without negative side effects?

An army consisting of 3 armies consisting of 9 armies consisting of 27 armies consisting of 81 Cavalry... I gotta finish the military academy.

I don't think that would work. A 4-unit army costs 5 unit places when placed in a transport, so I do not think you could put an army into an army.

#### Chieftess

##### Moderator
Retired Moderator
It doesn't show the bonus, since it depends on the unit you attack/defend with (in the instance you don't have 3 or 4 of the same unit).

#### Zeekater

##### hasn't been using drugs
Here you go sealman

Originally posted by Roi du Culture
I tried that once, and i think it may be a bug...i have 1.0 so there are a lot of those. I was playing as Mcedon in RoR, and built an army within an army with an army, and plus 6 other heavy calvary. What firepower! They were unstoppable, and I conquered all of Italy before I ran out of Hopilites to guard with. I later used it against the Persians, and then the Scythians, and then the Carthaginians. By the end of the game, that triple-army had made me the ruler of the medieterranian-as my only offensive unit in the field of battle!

I'm going to try it out first thing this friday.

#### Roi du Culture

##### Bohemian Protecter
The army slowed down my computer terribly. I looked at the save the other day (before my computer was wiped clean because of a life insurance virus) and discovered it took an average of 7 seconds for each tile moved. Also, I could only attack three times a turn, although the attacks always won. I guess this is support for the totl bonus theory. This gave me usually a city a turn. But there was another bug- the army was unable to be disbanded it. This gave me an extra bonus, because in every city I came to I simply hit the disband button and got an immense amout of shields for that city. Finally, if you do manage to repeat this bug, NEVER TAKE A POP ONE CITY WITH IT! I had to reload 3 times because the army just kept on disappearing.

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