Army system

[sikandar323]

I would like to share about some idea about army system.
Current system (since the first civ) allow to recruit too much units. When included the resource availabilty as limit was a great step, but we can recruit yet many units of other units without resource limit.
The limit of units by resources is ok, I think will be good also to limit a maximun armies (or fleets or squadrons), for example, according size of country (money, populaton, production or all together) availability will be between 2 -10 armies, when you build an army, you can add different units and balance the army. Units can´t be stand alone, they have to be included in army. Probably the limit of units in army will be around 40-50, but if you want to explore you can build and small army (or fleet).
With less units, game will be faster.

 

[Socrates99]

Soooo...in other words stacks?

 

[smartcanuck1988]

In terms of limiting the number of units: in civ5 you already had a supply limit of 2-3 units per city and 0.5 per pop, plus some base supply for difficulty. Plus each unit costs maintenance so effectively richer civs can support more units. That said, the penalty for exceeding the limit wasn't much so perhaps that could be improved. But the idea is already in there I think.

 

[AriochIV]

"Armies" are just compound units. They're really not stacks.

I think limiting the number of armies you can have would defeat the purpose of corps/armies, which is to (slightly) reduce mid- and late-game clutter.

 

[stiiknafuulia]

40-50 units per army... Did you skip Civ V (and IV, for that matter)? Because the last time we regularly saw stacks like that was in Civ III. Your system could be made to work, I suppose, but it would be a 180 from the current approach, and (I suspect) reviled by the players who played Civ V as their first Civ and are used to 1upt. They won't be taking such a risk, so this idea really belongs in the modding forum (or an 'Ideas for Civ VII' firum, if we had one).

 

[Felis Renidens]

I would not enjoy it much, I don't like huge armies.

 

[Plus Ultra]

This sounds to me like traditional stacking. Civilization VI will keep 1UPT.
Regarding performance, hopefully they will optimize the game better without having to reduce units, or any other stuff, just to make it go "faster".
I think their new compound unit system (see spoiler) might help aleviate some of the problems of the 1UPT system. Sure sounds like a good idea.

Spoiler :

Civilization VI still uses a "1 Unit Per Tile" system, but adds a combined arms system in which a normal military unit can link with and stack together with a support unit, such as a builder, settler, field medic, battering ram, siege tower, anti-tank or anti-aircraft unit.

Starting in the Renaissance era two of the same unit can be combined into a Corps, which is less powerful than two individual units, but more survivable and takes up less space on the map (to reduce overcrowding). Later in the modern era, three units can combine to form an Army. The ability to form Corps and Armies are unlocked in the Civics tree rather than the technology tree.

Source: http://well-of-souls.com/civ/civ6_units.html

 

[Schuesseled]

Op translation:

Current situation:
-The current system allows us to recruit too many units.
-Strategic resources requirements for certain units is a step in the right direction, but they don't limit the total number of units.

Proposed changes:
-All units must be part of armies, composed of different units.
-The total number of armies depends on the size of the country (or a particular set of variables, like money or production)
-The max units per army could be around 40-50.

The benefit of this system will be a faster game.

Pretty sure that's not necessary. It's not like he posted in french.

I'd like to see a mod which removes the representative unit. Imagine if you will building a group of 50 swordsman in the time it takes to build one now. And being able to split them up and combine to different stacks that fight in unison up to a maximum of 50 individual units per army stack.

You could have say 25 swordsmen 24 archers and a catapult. It's like a refinement on the concept of comining support units with military units.

 

[Plus Ultra]

Pretty sure that's not necessary. It's not like he posted in french.

I'd like to see a mod which removes the representative unit. Imagine if you will building a group of 50 swordsman in the time it takes to build one now. And being able to split them up and combine to different stacks that fight in unison up to a maximum of 50 individual units per army stack.

You could have say 25 swordsmen 24 archers and a catapult. It's like a refinement on the concept of comining support units with military units.

You are probably right. Hey, just trying to be helpful here, but I erased my post to avoid any misunderstanding.

By the way, I honestly didn't understand your post. Are you agreeing with the OP? Proposing a new system?

 

[Dedrytus]

1. Armies were in Call To Power - mini stacks of doom ;-) Not bad system of warfare.
2. As far as I remember in the first civ there were support (or shield?) costs for city that built unit. So if you had one, poor coastal city you could end with one war ship. But it was so long ago... my memories could be completely wrong

 

[Felis Renidens]

In Civ1 and Civ2 armies belonged to cities, the support came from production (and for settlers also food) above a minimum that depended on government. Some governments also had unhapiness from units outside cites (in Civ2 they could have been in any city or a fortification within 3 tiles of city, in Civ1 they had to be in the cities they belonged to). And you usually needed one or two units just to defend the city).

 

[Socrates99]

1. Armies were in Call To Power - mini stacks of doom ;-) Not bad system of warfare.
2. As far as I remember in the first civ there were support (or shield?) costs for city that built unit. So if you had one, poor coastal city you could end with one war ship. But it was so long ago... my memories could be completely wrong

CiV has the support limit too. It was just rare to hit it. Only time I remember having problems with it were marathon games with Germany when I was especially lucky barb hunting.

 

[Mustakrakish]

Let's just take the limit to units we kinda already have and make it more strict and harsh and be done with it. Simple. Say a base 3 units with your first city and an additional unit for every 2 pop or something. When over the limit, just triple the maintenance cost of all units. Put some UA and policies that invrease the limit and / or alleviate the penalty for overreaching and I'm very happy.

 

[Schuesseled]

You are probably right. Hey, just trying to be helpful here, but I erased my post to avoid any misunderstanding.

By the way, I honestly didn't understand your post. Are you agreeing with the OP? Proposing a new system?

Oh, I was definitely suggesting a new system. I'll try and clarify a bit better.

So the way it currently works in Civ games, is for armies to be represented in the game by usually around 3 blokes. So your swordsman unit is representing an army of swordsmen, but it would be possible to perhaps mod it so that each unit that exists now is instead a unit made up of multiple other units without really mechanically changing anything.

Each individual soldier you put into an army on the field would contribute to the total unit strength, they can be killed in battle and are 'healed' over time. (a better word might be reinforced).

It would allow you to mix up the configurations of armies, personally I would prefer to get rid of ranged combat altogether and go back to the first strike system of civ 4 and keep 1upt (one army per tile) but that isn't probably achievable.

 

[Browd]

Moderator Action: Moved to Ideas & Suggestions

 

[ShadowWarrior]

Why don't we just have a separate tactical screen to take care of the actual combat?

In another word, when two opposing armies meet, we instantly zoom into the tactical screen. But I suggest that tactical screen should take in all hexagons immediately adjacent to that one hex where the two armies meet. The entire battle can then take place on the whole 7 hexagons. All units that are present in those 7 hexagons will automatically take part in this battle. Once we zoom into the tactical screen, the 7 hexagons will be broken into many smaller hex themselves.

Terrain will make a difference. If all 7 hexagons in the tactical screen are all plains, then terrain probably won't make a big impact. But if the terrains in the tactical screens is a combination of desert, forest, hills, and plains, then the battle will have greater tactical elements to it.

Eliminate one unit per tile. Unlimited number of units can be stacked into the same hex. Since we are using tactical screen for individual battles, the pros and cons between stack of doom and carpet of doom disappears.