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Arrrrr

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - We The People' started by GS_Guderian, Nov 2, 2018.

  1. GS_Guderian

    GS_Guderian Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Regarding my most recent R&R 2.7.1 game I had a brilliant start which soon led to total surpremacy on the high seas.

    I wonder if it might be possible to include some things like this:

    1. pirates (like wild animals)
    belonging to noone but other than animals being a real threat. Maybe stronger ships in mid game.

    2. better coordination of AI ships.

    Enemy pirates often sail alone and sometimes even ignore my capital ships just to attack a fishing boat.
    Unless I run out of luck they rarely ever sink a ship before I catch them.

    3. AI rarely defends it‘s ports/trade hubs.

    Encounters with enemy pirate hunters or even the Royal Navy seem to happen by pure chance or bad luck from my point of view. Most common are attacks of single sloops failing most times.

    Maybe ships lost to pirates could trigger an event like the one with your first frigate, only now such a frigate or maybe more ships belonging to the king of the attacked nation could temporarely appear to roam the coast?

    4. Pirate ships stacked with regular ships or within ports should show their nationality to AI while spotted and could trigger diplomatic events.
     
  2. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
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    3,986
    When I saw the title, I was like "somebody ran into a new serious problem". It turns out to be a different kind of arrr :lol:

    1. The wild animals player will start to spawn pirate ships instead of animals at some point, meaning there are already pirates not belonging to any player.

    2. The AI is in need to tactical improvements. Also I suspect the issue is partly the pirates without any player, meaning they don't have other ships to rely on.

    3. Again AI tactical improvements needed.

    4. Interesting idea, though I'm not certain I like it for gameplay/balance reasons.


    It's a bunch of nice inputs and we are open to proposals. There is one thing, which worries me here and that is how will this affect game balance? If barbarian pirates become more powerful, it wouldn't matter to the strong player, but the not so strong player will start to lose a lot of ships, meaning the strong player becomes stronger relative to the other players without doing anything, making it even harder to catch up if you aren't the strongest player. It also makes the game less interesting if you are the strongest because your enemies will not put up a fight.

    If/once the AI protect the cargo ships with proper warships, pirates becomes useless.

    Maybe we can let users control pirates frequency/tactics with game or map options and we may consider using difficulty level as well.

    Game design can be tricky when the goal is good gameplay, which surprisingly is not always the same as realism. Think of it this way: the game would be ruined by a random event, which gives the player a heart attack, meaning it's just some game over random event. Sure it would be realistic, but it's horrible for gameplay and it would be really annoying to be hit by something like that. Likewise it might be realistic if pirates gang together to attack somewhere with the power of numbers, but it's no fun for the player attacked that way where they just lose access to Europe for 50 turns or something.Porto Bello was raided by more than 200 ships at some point, but no royal navy was behind it. It was just buccaneers working for personal wealth. Blackbeard made a blockade of Charles Towne (present day Charleston, South Carolina) and demanded tribune. There are plenty of examples of "game over random events" from real life history and while they are realistic, they aren't fun for gameplay. This is why I'm personally not quick to praise the idea of stronger pirates and AI. We have to be sure it's not making the game too difficult for inexperienced players.

    We want the game design to be a community task, meaning we are open to input and public debate on how the game should work. Just keep the ideas coming.
     
  3. CptBadger

    CptBadger Chieftain

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    Personally I see the pirates get out of hand on a huge or gigantic map often, so I don't think I agree with stronger pirate ships. Better AI, yes.

    I do like the diplomatic repercussions idea, even original Col had that. But it'd have to actually see stacking as opposed to just knowing. May be more AI work than worth.

    I also think the Corvette should benefit from a larger anticorsairs bonus. They were specialized to hunt and kill exactly that sort of vessel and tactics. Overall strength seems right, just a bigger bonus against pirates, maybe 25 percent instead of 10?
     
  4. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
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