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Art Style Poll - Are you turned off or excited?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by blitzkrieg1980, May 16, 2016.

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What is your reaction to the new art style we have been shown?

Poll closed Oct 31, 2016.
  1. I'm excited! I like the new artstyle.

    58 vote(s)
    16.8%
  2. It's okay. Not overexcited but not disappointed.

    85 vote(s)
    24.6%
  3. I'm not completely turned off but not exactly impressed.

    105 vote(s)
    30.4%
  4. Ugly. Flat out crap. I hope they change it!

    72 vote(s)
    20.9%
  5. I don't really care about the art style.

    25 vote(s)
    7.2%
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  1. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    It's a matter of proportions. In Civ5 trees are somewhere between unit legs, so they don't interfere with their appearance. In the current Civ6 state the trees are about shoulder tall and thus could hide significant parts of the units. This could be a work-in-progress thing, though as object scale is the easiest thing to fix.
     
  2. miaasma

    miaasma Prince

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    civ 5 raised the bar for graphics in a strategy game for me. call me spoiled, but what i'm seeing so far for civ 6 is wholly unimpressive. i'm still excited for the game though; early incarnations of civ 5's art looked pretty mediocre too, and it turned out wonderfully

    i don't care about graphics in a strategy game like i do in other games, but it still matters, especially if it feels like the sequel to a game ends up regressing graphically
     
  3. Westwall

    Westwall Emperor

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    I'm just talking about initial impressions. I think in the same way, people can get used to the Civ 6 aesthetic but I really need more examples (preferably gameplay video) before I can say for sure.
     
  4. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    Not really a fair comparison. Original Civ5 screens also had all the UI hidden. The Civ5 screenshot you showed is from the final game with the unit icons.

    Those icons are the first thing I see and are meant specifically to aid in identifying units.

    You also used a 450p verison of the Civ6 screenshot and compared it to a full res Civ5 screen. Talk about stacking the deck.

    Now compare this




    to this

     
  5. AriochIV

    AriochIV Analyst

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    The main reason why the Civ V units are easier to see is just because they have 12 figures instead of 4.

    I can understand why the Civ VI units only have 4 figures -- it's likely because Combined Arms, Corps and Armies will add a lot of figures to each unit. Guessing that Support units will probably have 2 figures, a Combined Arms unit will likely have 6 figures, a Corps 8, and an Army 12.

    Which leads me to wonder whether a Corps or Army can also stack with a Support unit.
     
  6. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    Great point. Actually I believe support unit is likely to be portrayed with a single figure staying outside the line, so this should be ok even with armies.

    One of the interesting things here is - I see 4 figures of Swordsmen in squire, but 4 figures of Archers in a line. This part could be just not finalized, but may mean something :)
     
  7. The_Reckoning

    The_Reckoning Prince

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    Seeing the graphics, my reaction was positive - I think they're a step backwards from Civ5, but that's a good sign - hopefully this time they're concentrating on moddability, AI and gameplay over a sleek aesthetic.
     
  8. Edish

    Edish Chieftain

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    Hmm, two positive options, one neutral-positive and one very negative... and then "I dont know"...

    Questions could have used some tweaking...
     
  9. Xen

    Xen Magister

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    They already did that last generation by having DLC civs.

    I understand and partially agree that the DLC policy of paradox is rediculous at times.

    BUT the cosmetic stuff is pretty valid- it doesnt matter at all to some people, and others love it. But the most important aspect of europa is that you get ALL those countries to play with...
     
  10. Greasy Dave

    Greasy Dave Prince

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    I'm going to take an hour from my lunchtime and try to explain this, as succinctly as possible - which will be hard so I apologise if I abbreviate or over simplify.

    I work in visual arts. I studied in the field. I am fascinated by aesthetics. This doesn't make my opinion any more qualified than others but it does allow me to try to cut through some of the erroneous reasoning and claims I've read in this thread and others.

    Let me also say, if you like the style - fine. I've no problem with that. This is not about me trying to tell people they're wrong to like something. It's about me trying to explain why I don't find anything to like or admire in it. Also, I'm afraid my statements will be very abbreviated. There have been thousands of pages written about aesthetic theory - I can't possibly try to condense the best of those thoughts into a couple of paragraphs to the satisfaction of everyone. So I won't be reentering this thread to argue about any of the points I'm trying to make.

    Let's begin with distinctness and subjectivity.

    Art is subjective - there is no good and bad - any artistic creation is valid. Wrong. The post modern democratization of art has been the easy excuse for lazy, uninspired and unintelligent creativity since it was dreamt up fifty years ago.

    Your personal experience of a work of art is a subjective experience. True.

    But next time you walk through the National Gallery ask yourself as you subjectively look at those paintings - what are you feeling. Sometimes you won't feel anything. But sometimes you will feel emotions you can't contain nor can you explain why you feel them. Some works of art - paintings, plays, poetry - effect people. Some works of art effect people more emotionally than other works.

    The objective fact is that "great" art does exist. The reasons why it exists, why it is "great", who defines "greatness" - that's subjective. But an aspiration for all art and creative work should be looking for that - even if it's in the artistic design of a video game - and even if it's impossible or very difficult to define what exactly "that" is. Very few works of art/ video games ever touch anything like "greatness". But at least it should aspire to it.

    Yeah, well it's just a video game. Wrong - it's a visual and aural experience. I went back to look at Civ 5 after looking at civ 6. BNW is a good example of good design. BNW is about the twentieth century. The twentieth century is both dark and light. Two world wars, genocides, technological breakthroughs and philosophical ideologies that mirrored these. The art of BNW is full of references to this. Whether we're talking about the images chosen, the tones of the images, the contrast of the images. I haven't got time to go though and cut and paste in examples. Have a look yourself. There's a lot of thought and care been put into BNW's art design.

    Why is this important? Because even if you are unaware that the game's artist has chosen particular images or a particular tone and colour palette, font or font size, his art design will still very likely prompt subconscious responses and associations in you. I'm not saying that looking at the intro screen of BNW will produce tears or a flood of emotion but your experience of the game play will likely be richer.

    In the art of civ 6 I see no aspiration to give the observer anything like that. Which brings me to distinctness.

    People have written above that the designer chose this visual style because "they" wanted it to be distinct.

    I'll give you some examples of distinctness of styles. The impressionists' style was distinct from the classicism of the nineteenth century that had gone before. Post-impressionists were distinct from them. Film Noire is distinct in design and lighting from other films of that time. Spirited Away (sorry, I don't know the Japanese word) is different in style from Western animated films (I can't comment on its distinctness from other Japanese animation) etc etc.

    Is Duck Tales distinct from Disney's Aladin? No.

    Is the Civ 6 style distinct for Civ 5? Yes it is.

    Is it distinct from other video games? No, it isn't. BNW has a distinct style - this gives the playing experience a unique feel. What I see in these images is not distinct. I don't have time to list everything (Civ Rev anyone) but I've seen this style in every second video game of the last twenty years ( I mean, orc mines and smurf cottages -come on!). Which brings me back to my first point about aspiring to greatness.

    Yes, our experience of art is subjective. But that's not an excuse to consider mundane and generic design as satisfactory and valuable. The images I've seen of Civ 6 are mundane and generic. The images I see neither excite or interest me at any level. They might be legible. They might be clear. But that is not a criteria t set value by. It is the very least any art designer worth his salt should be able to achieve. That is the base line. To have the funding that Civ has (Civ 5 sold 8 million) and the time that they had to develop, the fact that all they could achieve is this shows a lack of imagination, creativity and aspiration. It truly makes me sad because Civ BNW has so much richness in its visual layer that I can look at those screens for hours.

    If you still don't understand what I'm talking about - think of food. Take a generic hamburger you can buy from a fast food joint. Does it taste good? Maybe? Yes, it's OK. But does it taste as good as it could? Does it taste as good as the hamburger you had last 4th of July or the evening you went on your first date? Of course, it doesn't. Any art designer or artists job/ goal/ aspiration should be to give you the hamburger that is both the one you had last 4th of July and the one you ate with your girlfriend/ boyfriend on your first date. Nothing less than that! They will rarely manage to cook you the thing - but they should be trying to. I cannot see any kind of aspiration to that in these screen shots.

    I voted option 4 btw -in case you couldn't guess
     
  11. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Justice guaranteed

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    I don't think we played the same Civ3.

    An actual return to Civ3 would have been nice. Civ3 was nowhere near as freakishly cartoony as this.

    This is basically CivRev style.
     
  12. RohirrimElf

    RohirrimElf Emperor

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    Really hated it at first. Now i can live with it. It is not much as a deal as i kind of liked the whole picture.

    To be fair to the new screenshots from civ 6. All the screenshots are kind of up close. Which is the strongest asset of civ 5`s artstyle. I could not really see much what is going on from a higher point of view with civ 5. I could not see whether a unit is from an european culture or asian for example.

    So i would like to know what civ 6 looks like from the hight i use while playing. Sometimes i zoom in to watch my units fight. So i am also curious what it looks like all the way zoomed in. If i can get more detail.
     
  13. Amrunril

    Amrunril Emperor

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    I agree. I'm highly disappointed in the art style, but found myself unable to vote because the poll's highly loaded language means that neither the 3rd not the 4th option accurately represents my opinion.

    Additionally, the 2nd option could be considered either as neutral or as mildly positive, which makes it easy to spin the results in multiple ways. The most common interpretation seems to be that the community (as represented by a self-selecting forum poll) is split fairly evenly on the new art style, but it would be equally accurate to say that less than a quarter think that it's any better than okay.

    I think that a far better set of poll options would have been Strongly Approve (of the new art style), Approve, Neutral, Disapprove and Strongly Disapprove.
     
  14. Kin

    Kin Chieftain

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    I usually play zoomed out so I can see the field. So it doesn't really matter to me.
    Get the game play down and I'm good.
     
  15. Battlehelm043

    Battlehelm043 Warlord

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    I have a sinking suspicion that the combined arms won't be able to become a full army or corps. Making it more of a specialist brigade when combined. That would make us decide to commit armies/corps balanced against combined arms. For example taking this district should I use my combined arms or use it on a flank to protect my elite corps advance...etc
     
  16. Battlehelm043

    Battlehelm043 Warlord

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    As I have suggested elsewhere, I think the dislike of the artwork comes mainly from the misconceived notion that I think many of us(myself included) got from the atmosphere of the trailer. I was under the impression the art would be similar but still serious. Then I saw the screenshots and was very confused and disappointed. That is not to say this game wont rock when it comes out; I just think if you are gonna portray a new art style, make a trailer that reflects it a little more. Still who knows what the final product will look like until E3...

    That I think is what makes this worse, is the disdain for the new art choice plus the time between seeing more of the art work... I feel that is what may keep the backlash going... Let it be known I am lumped with those not impressed by the art choice too. I mean in the end it is far too late to change art course now so this is the art we will get, but the culture shock of not seeing anything else and the repeated drone of how great it is with each story parroting one another is not helping. Maybe if (and I know they are very busy) Beach or Shirk were to come here and directly address concerns of the community without dropping spoilers I think it might clear up the issue of the art choice before E3.
     
  17. brianshapiro

    brianshapiro King

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    Well the Civ5 screenshot I used showed the hexes around the same size pixel-wise as the Civ6 screenshot, which is why I thought it was okay to use.

    But yea, even with the shot you're using, I'd make the same point. The units stand out far more in the Civ5 screenshot to me.
     
  18. EEE_BOY

    EEE_BOY Deity

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    Totally excited
     
  19. nunor

    nunor King

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    "Ugly, flat out crap"?
     
  20. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    It's no problem, just wanted to point out the Civ5 screen had a lot of advantages that helped people point out units.


    I would also add that if you look at the Civ5 screen, the early units look kind of the same. The warriors and archers have almost identical garb.



    The warriors in that screen also unfortunately blended into the plains tile (this was not my doing but that was actually a pre-release Civ5 screen Firaxis put out)

    The warriors only stand out vis-a-vis the archers because the archers wore white. The spears also look really similar to the archer with their two toned design.

    Compare this to the Civ6 screen where the archers in the back have a distinctive pose, with the composite bow infront. The warrors also look distinct.


     
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