Artistry/Fealty/Statecraft

CrazyG

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Alright let's dig into Artistry. When is it good? When is it bad? I heard it has strong culture, but what exactly does that mean?

First, let's look at culture sources.
Spoiler Where Does Culture Come From? :

There are three types of culture in the game:
Source #1 Base Culture
The most simple, just per turn culture added to a city. Examples:
Any X:c5culture: from a building, including buffs to buildings like what baths or pantheons provide.
Tiles and Specialists
WondersInspiration, some pantheons
+2:c5culture: for garrisons in authority

Source #2 +% bonuses
Golden ages, baths, and mosques
Tradition finisher, some industry policies
Divine Inheritance
France's UA

Source #3 Bonus Yields
Culture per kill in authority
Culture per tech and per building in progress
Culture per great person (various places)
Veneration, Way of the Pilgrim
**Trade routes
**City States and their quests

**Yes, these belong here, because their rewards aren't affected by % bonuses.

Artistry does sometimes provide strong culture, but you need to play into it.
Artistry provides a lot of % bonuses. If bonus yields are half your total culture, then a +20% bonus is really only a +10% bonus. Those % bonuses are very weak if you lack raw culture. Your total culture might be very strong, but if it's all in bonus yields artistry won't help you.

Now, if your base culture is high, then artistry brings a lot. You have to buy in though, really push for culture. When that golden age is active you need to push out every point of culture you can. Remember your % bonuses are huge, so a writer provides 6:c5culture:, not 4:c5culture:. Build your guilds, work your specialists, dump gold in baths. That's how you play artistry.
Spoiler Tradition and Artistry :

Natural synergies between these, obviously the great person and specialist stuff.

I really think the golden age stuff is more important. Of the three ancient era policies, tradition has by far the most :c5culture: that gets boosted by golden ages. This is more important than you realize. Getting baths down in every city, with +2:c5culture: on baths and on monuments makes golden ages very strong.

You also get a free mosque from University of Sankore and longer golden ages from. Special mention to Divine Inheritance which synergizes with both policy trees to make a truly disgusting capital.


Spoiler Progress and Artistry :

Overall, there are some hurdles here. With progress you are probably earning around 50% of your culture as bonus yields, sometimes more. That failure to provide a strong culture base means golden ages are weak by default.

Artistry does have wide advantages, notably the :c5goldenage:, but this bonus is just okay. The big strength of progress + artistry is the Great Writer.
If you didn't know, a Great Writer provides instant :c5culture: based on your previous 5 turns of culture. This means that the best time to use a great writer is during a golden age, since the previous 5 turns will have higher culture. You can also add the world congress proposal "World's fair" for another big culture boost, put all cities to a culture focus during that 5 turn window, and even put their production to the culture process.

Both tradition and authority can and should do this will natural great writers, but progress can double dip by getting a natural writer and faith buying one the same turn. This gets to ideologies extremely quickly.

Progress-artistry only works if you have strong base culture from a special source. Polynesia and Brazil are examples that can provide that base.


Spoiler Authority and Artistry :

This is a combination you have to spend some time playing because it's a lot stronger than it seems on paper. There's just a lot of weird synergies that add up, and there are just situations where fealty or statecraft fall short.

Authority has a high base production and grants 2:c5culture: per city, both work well with golden ages. Investing in a high culture strategy is rewarded with more culture and production from border growth. You should build 3 writers guilds and work both writers in all of them, especially during golden ages. Even if the city stagnates completely, do it. You need to add that base :c5culture: pays off.

Puppets have no :c5goldenage: penalty. Hero worship also provides :c5goldenage:. Artistry's :c5science: isn't the best but it's good enough and has no conditions to collect, which is really convenient. Statecraft has higher :c5science:, but it wants you to research banking (which notably isn't gunpowder). Artistry tends to result in low :c5citizen: cities, so fewer :c5unhappy: problems which warmongers can appreciate.

Authority can be in a situation where conquest is tough in the medieval era. You are dealing with Castles, defensive pacts, and the Great Wall. Artistry is a good pick to get through this era of the game and reach tools like muskets, frigates, imperialism and autocracy more quickly.

In summary:
Artistry provides strong :c5culture: but only if your base :c5culture: is already high.
Tradition-Artistry is a strong combination. When taking tradition, artistry is my most common follow up.
Progress-Artistry faces challenges, but can be strong if your civ supports the strategy.
Authority-Artistry is stronger than you would expect due to many small synergies working together.

That's the start of my guide/analysis. There's more to come.
 
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CrazyG

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I didn't mention :tourism: at all in the first post because it really isn't the focus of artistry. The focus is :c5culture:. But moving into the late game, we should looking at win conditions. I consider there to be 5 ways to win the game:
  1. Spaceship (SV)
  2. World Congress Votes, or Diplomatic Victory (DV)
  3. Culture and Tourism (CV)
  4. Domination
  5. Dominating, but winning formally winning by 1,2, or 3
I'm including #5 because in my experience, winning by #4 is actually pretty rare. If you conquer half the world you've already informally won, and along the way you'll often get enough votes or tourism to formalize the win.

I think the best way to analyze rationalism/imperialism/industry is to look at win conditions and compare to fealty and statecraft.
Spoiler Science, SV, and Artistry :
After artistry, take rationalism.
SV games always want rationalism but have flexibility in their middle policy. The best choice will depend on your circumstances, all three are reasonable choices.


Artistry helps because: if you want to build Hubble you need 24 policies and artistry can help you get there. It also provides decent :c5science: in the mid-game, +25%:c5greatperson: for more great scientists, and a free Great Scientist(or other person of choice if preferable). Unlocking rationalism and ideologies earlier indirectly provides a lot of :c5science: too.

Scientist specialists giving 6:c5science:1:c5culture: is usually stronger than 7:c5science: (statecraft) or 6:c5science:1:c5faith:(fealty). Many civs with strong science lack extra culture, and culture is really important in SV games.

The weakness of artistry here is you largely forfeit the ability to influence world events, such as wars, city states and world congress. You should expect to get sanctioned at some point.


Spoiler City States, DV and Artistry :

After artistry, take...imperialism and try to change your strategy? Artistry doesn't create good conditions for a DV, you probably should have taken statecraft. Fealty can work too if have the right religion.

Culture is probably least important for a DV compared to other strategies; there isn't any obvious third policy tree to ramp into for a DV. Note that cultural city states are less valuable than normal if playing artistry. Artistry does get a free Great Person who could be a great diplomat? That's the only thing I can think of.


Spoiler (Peaceful) CV and Artistry :

After artistry, take rationalism or industry. Imperialism can work in the right conditions too.

Finally we discuss :tourism:! Artistry is a good choice for a CV, but not the only choice at all. Fealty works well with the right religion, but probably not statecraft.

Artistry is good for a CV primarily because of it's strong :c5culture:,:c5greatperson:, and extra :c5goldenage:. Yes, it provides :tourism: and buffs :tourism: sources such as great works and landmarks, but those bonuses really are secondary. Most tourism comes from :c5culture: being converted into musicians or historic events, not directly from :tourism:. Furthermore, strong culture helps to reach ideological policies, you need two tier 3's and they provide a massive :tourism: boost.

Faith buying great musicians is also important, any CV strategy without artistry should strongly consider To The Glory Of God.

For the 3rd policy tree you have options:
Rationalism means the game is all about staying ahead in :c5culture: and :c5science: , you'll be weak in other areas especially world affiars. Higher :c5science: does provide :tourism: via unlocking radio and other things earlier. The extra :c5food: is usually not that impactful, though tradition capitals in particular appreciate it.

You want to spend your precious production on key wonders or tourism buildings and lack spare resources for diplomatic units or large navies. You'll lose CS allies, World Congress influence, and be unable to apply military force away from home. You should expect to get sanctioned at some point. Bletchley Park probably isn't worth building in this game.

Industry means you trade :c5science: for :c5production: and :c5gold:. You also gain access to extra trade routes and Broadway, which all provide :tourism:. Industry probably provides more :c5culture: and :c5happy: too. This might sound great for industry, you get less of only :c5science: but probably more of 4 others, but late game :c5science: is crucially important.

The advantages are numerous, spare :c5production: and :c5gold: for diplomatic and military units. You'll eventually run processes in your cities and industry's will be better. Can be good hybrid strategies where you do some war, but not enough to take imperialism, or want some CS allies but not a DV.

The disadvantages compared to rationalism are all :c5science: based, missing a key wonder can really hurt.


Spoiler War, Domination, and Artistry :

Artistry itself doesn't contribute too much to a war effort, but it does a lot of things well enough in the midgame to stay just behind the AI. And it provides strong culture to reach imperialism/autocracy faster and start the real conquests.

Just push as much :c5culture: as you can, get to imperialism, build or upgrade a big military and start fighting. Especially on maps with a lot of water or coastal cities, big navies are strong, and imperialism makes a big difference on how frigate effectiveness. Keep pushing for :c5culture: to get to autocracy, these war bonuses are crazy and getting them earlier makes a big difference.

This isn't necessarily about a formal domination victory where you take all capitals. After conquests you'll often find yourself with strong :tourism: (and autocracy has great :tourism: bonuses). Sometimes a DV will happen too.

Artistry itself isn't that important here, the key is just boosting you towards better policies sooner. If in your situation neither statecraft nor fealty seem that important, try artistry.

You need to evaluate which is right for your game. As an example, :c5faith: changes in value dramatically from game to game. If you need a lot of it, consider fealty. If you can live without it, try artistry.

Artistry's weaknesses compared to statecraft are primarily having less :c5gold:, no spy to steal techs, and no extra strategic resources. If your civ, starting position, or religion can't cover those weaknesses artistry will perform poorly.

Also note that a weirdly large number of warmonger civs have culture or great person synergy.
 
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CrazyG

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Yield Priorities, Managing Citizens, and Build Orders

The overall idea here is to play into your strengths, not your weaknesses.

Playing into strengths means if you have +40% towards a yield, invest in that yield.
Avoiding weaknesses means spending yields you have less of (such as :c5gold: and :c5faith:) carefully. Think twice before committing those yields to something the AI (who have far more total resources) can take away from you.
Spoiler Choosing Between Yields :

For example, if you currently have a golden age(+20%:c5culture:) with artistry (+10%:c5culture:), with mosques in all cities (another 10%:c5culture:), and a bath in most cities (another 10%:c5culture:), put everyone on culture! Your city's governor will want to work a 4:c5food: farm instead of a 5:c5culture: specialist (worth 7:c5culture: or 8:c5culture: after the golden age bonus). Stop that ridiculous fool!

When you add in things like mastery, world's fair, divine inheritance, a single musician specialist can effectively give 15+:c5culture:. If a Great Writer is born, you can effectively double that for a few turns. If one is born and another is faith purchased, you can triple it.

On this note I often use internal trade routes if I really need growth, even if they are a little bit less efficient than foreign routes. It means giving up :c5gold: for :c5food:, instead of giving up :c5culture:/:c5greatperson:. During golden ages you should push :c5production: and :c5culture:, the gaps between is a good time to focus on your :c5food: and :c5science:.

Similarly once you build a bath, temples and amphitheaters become really strong. This is also true in reverse, if you already have a temple and amphitheater in the city, build a bath next. These three buildings are very good choices to invest with :c5gold:.


For buildings, generally from most to least important is
:c5culture:->:c5science:->:c5production:->:c5gold:->:c5food:
(of course the situation may call for alterations)
Spoiler Build Order for Classical to Early Renaissance Buildings :

This build order is just meant as a general starting point for what to build when you have more than option available.. Use your brain and make exceptions, (ex: if you have no religion obviously lower temples).

Also generally build trade routes whenever they are available, and military units as needed.

Step 0: Wells, watermills, monuments, shrines, and councils
I assume you already have these buildings done by the time you unlock artistry. If you don't, finish them. Also add lighthouses or forges if your terrain demands it.
  1. Guilds: work those writers immediately. Note that you shouldn't use :c5gold: on guilds because it wastes your 100%:c5production: bonus to that building class.
  2. Baths + amphitheaters, + temples. Even without any tile rewards this combination reaches 6:c5culture:, 8:c5culture: with grand temple, 10:c5culture: with tradition, and an extra10% for golden ages. This is key to getting your base culture high enough that golden ages matter. If you lack freshwater you still build the other buildings.
  3. Grand Temple (to boost temples)
  4. Arena-Forge-Barracks (hopefully by artistry these are already done, but if not get them!)
  5. Libraries (also a building ideally done before you unlock artistry, it's good to use the specialist a little bit BTW)
  6. Armories: science, production and defense are all relevant
  7. School of Philosophy: remember it gives a big :c5science: boost during golden ages
  8. Universities: a bit expensive for their yields, especially if you can't use the scientist yet. Make sure you build one to access Oxford though.
    Oxford University: good :c5culture: in addition to it's :c5science:
  9. Markets: I often don't have these until renaissance. If you can finish all of the above buildings before renaissance then you are doing fine.
  10. Customs House: this is a decent culture source, but it is though less production efficient than the buildings listed above
  11. Banks: either commit to the bank-triple everywhere or don't. Gold is nice but they aren't your priority
  12. Aqueduct: in your capital this tends to be a great building, but elsewhere it can wait. You need to work specialists so you won't grow too much in the short term.
  13. Caravansary: like the aqueduct, your first cara is pretty good, you can set all foreign trade routes from the same city, but the others are a low priority.
  14. Chancery: you didn't pick statecraft
  15. Grocer: very expensive for what it does. Good in capital, optional elsewhere
Unranked Buildings:
  • Castles: they just depend on circumstances.
  • Workshop: if you have enough trees it's important, but generally you can afford to wait. Also not a tech I prioritize highly with artistry
  • Ironworks: good in the capital but no need to change tech path for it
This should also be a decent guide to tech choices too, though changing paths for wonders military units is often necessary. Also make sure you'll have enough :c5citizen: to build Grand Temple or Oxford before rerouting your science that direction.


Yields do change value over time. For example, :c5faith: is crucially important at first, but once you've reformed and enhanced you can de-prioritize it. For the late game, value :c5science: higher.

I find it hard to pick :c5food: over :c5production: in the medieval era, because the buildings are so strong (I cannot overemphasize how important it is to get baths-temples-amphitheaters quickly), while tiles are relatively weak. But later buildings are much worse value for the :c5production: you put in, borders grow, tiles become stronger, and aqueducts/grocers make growth effectively cost less :c5food:, so growing later can make a lot sense.

The final yield source to discuss here is city-states.

Spoiler City-State Strategy :

If your strategy will heavily involve CS, take statecraft, not artistry. Do not pick artistry then try to compete for city-states with a Deity AI who took statecraft, you will lose. If you are light on gold you can even consider selling paper (keep enough for 1 diplo units in reserve though).

Generally you want to complete the easy quests, especially since many of them give :c5goldenage:. I do take the scrivener's office early on too since it provides :c5faith:.

Early on, like classical and early medieval era, you might build a few diplo units since their return on :c5gold:/:c5production: can be high and they provide rare yields like :c5faith:,:c5food:, or help activate WLTKD. Realize and accept that you will eventually lose your allies, don't over invest. Artistry just collecting half yields for being friends rather than pushing for the full alliance.

For CS types,
  • :c5culture:CS are normally very strong but do not get boosted by golden ages. With artistry they are just okay, relative to non-artistry games they have a much smaller impact.
  • :c5faith: CS are great early but often faith drops in importance once you've enhanced and reformed. If faith is a central part of your strategy you should have taken fealty.
  • :c5food: CS are okay, if your land is food light they help out.
  • :c5happy: CS: You should expect to lose all your allies eventually, you cannot rely on CS for :c5happy:.
  • Military CS are generally the best for artistry, they are just efficient in yields returned. :c5science: and free units help a lot in the medieval and renaissance era.
 
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CrazyG

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Similar to the part about city-states about, with artistry you shouldn't expect to overcome several AI in terms of religion. The plan is to start strong, spend our :c5faith: efficiently to get :c5culture: and other yields, then take a backseat. Do not expect to win a religious spreading battle against civs with Fealty.

Set modest goals for your religion, if the plan was to convert the entire world, you should have picked Fealty. Our first goals for :c5faith: are as follows:
  • Get a religion
  • Enhance that religion
  • Spread until reformation
Once these are done, we can look at other activities, which will depend on what beliefs you take:
  • Save some :c5faith: for great people post-industrial era
  • Convert :c5faith: to other yields through Apostolic Tradition or Way of the Pilgrim
  • Buy :c5faith: buildings like mosques
  • Use :c5faith: on normal buildings, via Jesuit Education or Faith of the Masses
  • Use :c5faith: on archeologists
  • Build Holy Sites
Only plan to get about 2 of the above, perhaps 3 or 4 if you get a faith monopoly or your civ provides some faith.
Typically I'll have two goals with religion:
  • Increase my culture
  • Cover my weaknesses
What are your weaknesses?
Depending on your land it can be :c5food: or :c5production:/:c5gold:. Generally authority wants:c5science:, progress wants :c5culture:, and tradition wants :c5production:.
Spoiler Follower Beliefs :

You get two choices, usually I'll use once to increase :c5culture: and the other to cover a weakness. Note endorsing a belief doesn't mean the belief is bad or needs a change, just that doesn't pair well with artistry.
Culture beliefs include:
  • Inspiration: great choice to boost your base :c5culture:. Good if your base :c5culture: looks low (common for progress), and the :c5faith: helps too
  • Mosques: powerful mid to late-game :c5culture: but it's weaker in the short term. 2:c5science: per city is nice. Mosques vs Inspiration is about short vs long term, pick whatever you civ needs more help with. Remember that University of Sankore gives a free mosque, so if you expect to get that wonder don't take this.
  • Mastery: good :c5culture: while providing other yields too. Very nice with tradition or in SV games, since late game it's a lot of :c5science:
  • Veneration: provides :c5culture: but it's a bonus yield. Veneration strategies probably want fealty.
  • Cooperation: provides :c5culture: but it's a bonus yield and really it's about balance. I'm not sure when this belief is that useful.
  • Pagodas: overall probably worse than mosques, but a still a decent choice (and you can potentially choose both)

Recommended Beliefs to Cover Weaknesses:
  • Scholarship: good source of :c5science: if you fall behind in tech.
  • Diligence: good source of :c5production:, a worthy choice as tradition or on desert/grassland starts
  • Synagogues: a slow but strong belief, 3:c5production: per city makes it like a lighter diligence, while providing late game :c5science:
  • Cathedrals: a very strong source of :c5gold: that has strong golden age synergies
  • Aestheticism or Mandirs: overall I would avoid these, because :c5food: is relatively unimportant, but on land with truly terrible growth, or specific civ traits such as Polynesia's Moai they can do alright.
Beliefs I Don't Recommend For Artistry:
  • Orders: these are an extremely strong source of :c5faith:, but generally high faith-strategies go better with fealty
  • Churches: artistry is not about religious spreading
  • Tithes: I find diligence or cathedrals to be stronger in general, especially since they benefit from golden ages
  • Stupas: this belief is just not good. Even if playing for a CV, don't be fooled by the :tourism:



Spoiler Founder Beliefs :

Apostolic Tradition is overall just amazing. It alone provides enough :c5food: to mostly ignore that yield, while also providing a ton of :c5culture:. This is the only bonus yield:c5culture: that I recommend because it's such a crazy amount.

Divine Inheritance is great with tradition-artistry, but good with progress or authority too. Overall they can all make sense, I just want to highlight these two.
 
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CrazyG

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What civs can use artistry well?

Spoiler What Makes a Civ Good with Artistry? :

As discussed above, the most important aspect to a successful artistry game is a high base :c5culture:.

Thus the best civs for artistry are those with bonuses to :c5culture:, the earlier the better. Remember it must base :c5culture: and not a bonus yield.

Civs who lack bonus :c5culture: by medieval era should seek out things to help their :c5culture:. If you don't have any of the below, don't take artistry:
  • Pantheons with culture
  • Inspiration
  • Luxuries that give culture
  • Freshwater so you can build baths
  • Early wonders with :c5culture:
  • A willingness to put techs like Drama or Poetry early.
Remember that tradition has the highest base :c5culture:. If you took authority or progress, you need to devote even more resources to stronger :c5culture: output.

Also consider that you don't artistry if you take fealty or statecraft, so civs with extremely strong synergies with those two should avoid artistry. Generally that means religion or city-state stuff. Among warmongers, I don't recommend artistry if you have a medieval era UU, because it gets in the way of buliding the relevant :c5culture: buildings.



Spoiler 5 Categories :

S Tier, :D:
Artistry is very frequently a good choice for this civ. A safe pick if you are unsure what to do, and fealty or statecraft will only be better choices for very specific reasons. If you want to see artistry shine, try out these civs.
I gave this rating to only 5 civs,
Venice, Arabia, Polynesia, Brazil and Egypt

A Tier, :c5happy::
Artistry will usually, but not always be the best pick. They need a little bit of support, such as a good start or an early religion. This category has a lot of civs with obvious artistry synergies that lack :c5culture:.

B Tier, :scan::
This tier should be called 'analysis needed', because these civs have the potential to do well under artistry but cannot just blind pick it every game. This category has a lot of warmongers.

C Tier:c5unhappy::
This group is for a civ that doesn't have anything pushing them towards artistry, but nothing against it either. You can make artistry work but it requires a lot of effort or weird situations. Many civs I put here prefer progress.

D Tier:c5angry::
Civs that will be seriously hampered by taking artistry over fealty or statecraft in most games. Most civs I put here have city-state synergies.

Note that the lowest score I give is a 'D', not an 'F', because a creative mind can find something from almost any civ to use artistry for.


Here's my view of the 43 civs for artistry. I added comments for a few of the ratings.
Spoiler 43 Civs Given a Rank :

Ahmadal-Mansur :c5happy:
Alexander :c5angry:, City-states and artistry don't mix well
Ashurbanipal :scan:
Askia :scan:
Attila :scan:, Eki boost culture!
AugustusCaesar :c5unhappy:
Bismarck :c5angry:, take statecraft for the extra votes!
Boudicca :c5happy:
CasimirIII :c5unhappy:
Catherine :c5unhappy:
DariusI :c5happy:
Dido :c5unhappy:
Elizabeth :c5unhappy:
EnricoDandolo :D
GajahMada :c5unhappy:
Gandhi :scan:
GenghisKhan :scan:
GustavusAdolphus :scan:
HaileSelassie :scan:, he does get +25% faith in golden ages
HaraldBluetooth :c5unhappy:,
Harunal-Rashid :D,
Hiawatha :scan:
Isabella :c5angry: Spain should take fealty
Kamehameha :D Try Polynesia if you want to do Progress-Artistry
Maria I :scan:
MariaTheresa :c5unhappy:
Montezuma :c5unhappy:
Napoleon :c5happy:, Slow but strong
NebuchadnezzarII :c5happy:
OdaNobunaga :c5happy:
Pacal :scan:
Pachacuti :scan:
PedroII :D
Pocatello :scan:
RamessesII :D
Ramkhamhaeng :c5unhappy:
Sejong :c5happy:, not a full :D because he lacks :c5culture:
Shaka :scan:
Suleiman :c5unhappy:
Theodora :c5unhappy:, she really wants fealty but you can force tradition-artistry to work too
Washington :scan:
William :c5happy:, the UA DOES get affected by golden age
WuZetian :scan:
 
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CrazyG

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The guide is mostly done, I might add to the religious section later but overall I'm happy with what's here.

I'd love to answer questions and discuss some of the points!
 

Thibix Magnus

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this is great, thanks! I realize I sometimes try artistry too much... You seem to find golden-age strategies relatively unimportant for artistry, what would you say about golden age perks, either from civs or starting monopoly? Why is it not that often a good synergy with artistry?

on a side note, I've also underestimated fealty for religious play it seems. I always understood +50% pressure from fealty as applying only to cities bordering your empire, is it correct? So for example a tall religious civ trying to spread far should not get a lot of use from that policy?
 

Stalker0

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So overall a great guide! Just a few notes:
  • I think its worth noting that as powerful as Tradition + Artistry + Rationalism is....you can be really short of gold and hammers, so I think talking about some ways to minimize that weakness is good.
  • Is Polynesia really "S Tier" for artistry? Sure you have the Maois, but Morocco has the Kasbah for base culture. I don't see Polynesia has such a strong culture that they are godly with artistry, probably just A tier to me.
  • I agree with you that the "Progress GW slingshot" is a key way to make up for Progress's early culture gaps, so much that it may be worth writing a short guide on that piece alone. A proper synergy right as industrial starts can make a huge difference.
 

CrazyG

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this is great, thanks! I realize I sometimes try artistry too much... You seem to find golden-age strategies relatively unimportant for artistry, what would you say about golden age perks, either from civs or starting monopoly? Why is it not that often a good synergy with artistry?
Would Persia be a good example for your question?

The reason I see Persia as "needs to think about it" is the lack of base culture. If you, for example, progress, a no :c5culture: pantheon, and no freshwater for baths, then artistry won't work. He can appreciate a strategy like order-veneration-zealotry, which generally wants fealty. If you make choices to help raise your base culture, then he'll be great with artistry.

on a side note, I've also underestimated fealty for religious play it seems. I always understood +50% pressure from fealty as applying only to cities bordering your empire, is it correct? So for example a tall religious civ trying to spread far should not get a lot of use from that policy?
I don't know the exact math of how far religious pressure goes, but it is affected by roads and possibly railroads. Fealty makes a big difference, if there is a civ without a religion caught between a fealty and a non-fealty civ, at game end he almost always will follow fealty's religion.
 
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CrazyG

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  • I think its worth noting that as powerful as Tradition + Artistry + Rationalism is....you can be really short of gold and hammers, so I think talking about some ways to minimize that weakness is good.
I did mention using a follower belief to cover weaknesses is a good move, specifically diligence if you have tradition (cathedrals can be good too). Civ bonuses, such as Babylon's investment stuff, can really help too.

  • Is Polynesia really "S Tier" for artistry? Sure you have the Maois, but Morocco has the Kasbah for base culture. I don't see Polynesia has such a strong culture that they are godly with artistry, probably just A tier to me.
Polynesia is easily the best progress-artistry civ in the game. Moai come much earlier than Kasbah, and provide far more culture unless your land doesn't cooperate at all. My last Polynesia game I finished all of progress on turn 78.

Morocco has reasons to consider statecraft since getting trade routes to city-states is pretty common for him. Polynesia generally wants to rush imperialism because his big coastal empire wants a big force of frigates as quickly as possible.
  • I agree with you that the "Progress GW slingshot" is a key way to make up for Progress's early culture gaps, so much that it may be worth writing a short guide on that piece alone. A proper synergy right as industrial starts can make a huge difference.
Sure I can add an explanation to one of the above posts.
 

azum4roll

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I find that I usually unlock Writer's Guilds before starting Artistry, so I do invest in them, just not the other guilds.

Markets depend on whether you have enough gold/GPT. Without abusing the deal AI, I find those necessary and build them earlier.

The building order is missing Gardens, which requires Aqueduct.
 

azum4roll

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Would Persia be a good example for your question?

The reason I see Persia as "needs to think about it" is the lack of base culture. If you, for example, progress, a no :c5culture: pantheon, and no freshwater for baths, then artistry won't work. He can appreciate a strategy like order-veneration-zealotry, which generally wants fealty. If you make choices to help raise your base culture, then he'll be great with artistry.
Doesn't Persia want to be in a golden age as much as possible? They may be the only civ who wants to take Artistry not for the culture.
 

CrazyG

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Doesn't Persia want to be in a golden age as much as possible? They may be the only civ who wants to take Artistry not for the culture.
Yes, but you can potentially reach endless (or nearly endless which is usually functionally good enough) golden ages without artistry. Both fealty (via Great Artists) and statecraft (via +50% quests) earn a fair amount of golden age points, a belief like Hero Worship would add a lot too.

If you do something like hero worship + zealotry then Fealty becomes really tempting. Maybe mixing fealty and artistry if you're into that sort of thing. I do think that Persia has other strong options and I want my guide to make note of that.

On looking back, I'll bump Persia to a :c5happy: because he is a good choice for artistry, better than most other warmongers. But I still don't think he deserves the highest rating because he lacks extra :c5culture: and that's a serious drawback.

Good question by the way.
 
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Kinda grasping at straws but I feel you're a bit harsh on Casimir's rank. If you can't found a religion (or found one but not strong enough against an aggressive AI), then you're pretty much 50:50 between Statecraft and Artistry with no special interaction with either. He's indeed not a civ tailored for it, but by the time Winged Hussars come in, surely Artistry's production problems are over?
 

CrazyG

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Kinda grasping at straws but I feel you're a bit harsh on Casimir's rank. If you can't found a religion (or found one but not strong enough against an aggressive AI), then you're pretty much 50:50 between Statecraft and Artistry with no special interaction with either. He's indeed not a civ tailored for it, but by the time Winged Hussars come in, surely Artistry's production problems are over?
I've mostly played Poland as progress and have a distinct memory of a lost game with Poland as Tradition-Artistry. That's why I gave him the rank I did.

I could be talked into bumping Poland up, as well as many other civs, I'm by no means an expert with all 43.

Edit:
I thought about it and I don't think you are grasping at straws at all. Poland really enjoys a fast autocracy strategy and artistry can support that.
The building order is missing Gardens, which requires Aqueduct.
Usually I put gardens early in the capital but late elsewhere.
 
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