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As a muslim, how do you take the anti islam comments posted on this forum?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Mopheo, Oct 19, 2003.

  1. Mopheo

    Mopheo Warlord

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    I've seen several Muslim users come and go, and I think this significantly hurts forum discussion, as you can't discuss something such as whether Christianity or Islam are peaceful religions, without input from both sides.
    In any case, I'm wondering how you feel about the constant criticisms of Islam in this forum (My ethnic group is also sometimes derided in this forum, but I ignore it or argue, while I don't see many responses to any into Islam statements by Muslims.
     
  2. The Yankee

    The Yankee The New Yawker Retired Moderator

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    Even though I'm not a Muslim, I'm offended by the constant anti-Muslim comments by people, either on this forum or on the street.

    The same applies for the anti-Arab comments, whether the Arabs are Muslim, Christian, Jewish, et. al.
     
  3. Mescalhead

    Mescalhead Vincebus Eruptum

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    Never seen this. What is your ethnic group and who derided you? Sure you aren't prone to bouts of melodrama?
     
  4. aaminion00

    aaminion00 Stoned

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    I'm offended. Most of these are comments from people who have read some propaganda sites or books (i.e. "The Sword of the Prophet", an anti-islam book written by an assistant to various war-criminals) and using the carefuly bended and distorted facts they find on such trustworthy places as the internet, they assume they know exactly what they're talking about. I sometimes feel like responding to them pointing out the obvious. What does the status of an outdated goverment run by dictators that radically interpets religion have with Islam being "evil"? How do hatreds built up in the past few hundred years condemn a religion four times as old as them? What do extremist interpetations have to do with the moderates, on which democratic societies are built upon? Sometimes I feel that Christianity is split into three parts (those who are christian only by birth, the moderate majority, and the extremists), whereas Islam is portrayed as only having the first and last of the three. I'm a Muslim, but I also fully support democracy. Democracy is present in both my home-country, and the United States, in which I live. I don't like the terrorists one bit. I don't like the fact that most muslim countries belong to corrupt monarchies. I don't llike the extremism that is promoted as a cure in so many muslim countries. Yet I'm still a Muslim. I still obey what I've been taught. I give what I can (as a 15-year-old) to charity every year, I try to be honest and fair, I pray when I can, I read the Kuran, I go to the friday-prayers whenever I have the chance, I memorize suras, and a number of other things. People will claim random quotes taken out of the Kuran to damn all of Islam, but what does that have to do with me? The Islam that i"ve been taught to follow is peaceful, and tolerant. Is the fact that this is the non-political message spread to Muslim children some sort of massive propaganda by Muslim scholars to decieve the west? Sure there are some verses in the Kuran that, even I admit, fairly violent when taken as they are. Why does this mean that Islam is evil? What about some quotes from the bible that can be interpeted as violent and gruesome (i.e. 1 Samuel 15:3)? Do they condemn the whole religion? Of course not!

    What really disgusts me is that through the years where praising Islam was cool, thanks to politicall-correctness, the post 9-11 world has made it the opposite. Books degrading and talking badly about Islam are the hottest thing on the market, and anyone who speaks out against muslims and islam is an instant celebrity. Those that do this continously, become heroes to masses.

    Yeah... that's pretty much it. I admit I'm not an expert in religious beliefs, so I just respect other religions, but remain true to mine. That's not only my personal opinion, but what I've been taught through the years about my faith. However, I have yet to meet another person on these forums who really is an intellectual expert regarding Islam, which is why I always have to groan when I see the umpteenth post from an *atheist 16 year old talking about the evils and pitfalls of Islam, and providing various extremist web-sites as their evidence. I hope this thread doesn't turn into yet another arguement about religions and so forth. Such things are bound to appear in any thread that involves religion and the middle east. I've just responded to your question, as to how I feel about the bashing my religion sometimes takes on these forums by a few people.

    By the way, what ethnic group are you, French :confused:

    *Not that there is anything wrong with atheism
     
  5. Akbar

    Akbar evil fundamentalist

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    I am a lurker and I generally ignore it. Nothing worse than what I haven't heard already.
     
  6. superslug

    superslug Still hatin' on Khan Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

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    Oh good, we do have some Muslims here. I'm tired of sharpening my teeth on the Christians and Jews! Of course I am distressed at how chic it is to bash Islam the last two years, because everyone knows it's the Buddhists turn at persecution! [/pathetic attempt at humorous sarcasm]

    In all seriousness, I do like how I've been noticing the phrase 'false muslims' floating around OT lately. In it's usual context, it means the poster using the phrase (religious and atheist alike) is aware that suicide terrorists do not represent those Muslims who are the majority, and those who are not morally corrupt.
     
  7. cgannon64

    cgannon64 BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!

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    This forum has nowhere near as much anti-Islamic comments as you will hear on the streets.
     
  8. Tacit_Exit

    Tacit_Exit King

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    A very wise man (my Uncle) once told me "If you don't take each bloke on his own merits, you're shot."

    No group, be it religous/ethnic/whatever is monolithic, which is why prejudice is so pathetically infantile.
     
  9. Zarn

    Zarn Le Républicain Catholique

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    True but none should be said and are obviously not acceptable. The same goes for this other religion that begins with a 'C,' especially a subdivision that also starts with a 'C.'
     
  10. Mescalhead

    Mescalhead Vincebus Eruptum

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    This seems like overreacting to me. I've never met anyone who lambasts Islam as a dangerous or violent religion. In my opinion, all Monotheistic religions have a high potential for violence. But this is a minority who commits the violence. There is nothing special about Islam in refernce to its diposition regarding extremism.

    I believe that you are a 15 year old looking to stand out and be 'for' something. I don't know where you get these ideas of people as being anti-Muslim.

    If you have problems with profiling, then let me ask you how many Norwegians are causing problems for comercial flights? Most Muslims are moderate, but the ones causing the problems with terrorism are almost always Muslim.

    Your religion should be for self-enlightenment and to establish a code of dicipline and conduct. Other peoples opinions should not matter. And just because a couple of idiots beat up some Muslims a few years back doesn't mean ****. If most Americans have a negative view of Islam, then most Muslims are terrorists.
     
  11. The Yankee

    The Yankee The New Yawker Retired Moderator

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    Although, a great thing happening for many people in New York is coming together to protect the Muslim people from such things. New York can seem deeply divided between "Kill 'em all!" and people protecting them and speaking out against it. I guess that's an expected side-effect of everything that's happened.
     
  12. Archer 007

    Archer 007 Rebirth

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    I do get sick of anti-Muslim statements. However, some people here refuse to see the difference bewteen Islam and Palestine.
     
  13. aaminion00

    aaminion00 Stoned

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    I have met at lest 2 such people on civfanatics alone.

    I agree.

    That's a pretty arrogant assertion for you to make considering you've never met me. I am looking to stand out and be "for" something? How? I don't care about standing out, I just care about being me. If being who I am makes me somehow stand out among the rest, well there's not much I can do about it. I do not go out looking for things that will make me special or unique. I look at what I already have, and feel proud about most of it. If I feel that it's bad, I try to learn and improve on it.

    Two books of the type I mentioned, one written by an alleged war-criminal, the other by a head of an organization warning of a necessary fight to exterminate Islam, have recently become top-sellers in the United States. Where do I get the ideas that most Americans are against-muslims? Absolutely nowhere, I don't believe the majority are. Where do I get the idea that many are? By looking at what's happening around me and paying attention to such issues.

    You seem to be making me some sort of scapegoat for all politically correct views on Muslims stated by various people on these forums. "The views of some don't stand for all... blah blah blah". I never said that. While I strongly believe that the extremist views of Islam overshadow those that are moderate, I didn't say that the moderate are the majority. In fact I disagree with your statement that "Most Musllims are moderate". I'd have to say that the average Muslim in the world, due to political and social circumstances that most Muslims have to deal with, either already are (at least slightly), or are tempted to be, on the extremist side of the spectrum (or at least leaning more toward extremism than it's opposite). What I am saying however is, that a moderate side does indeed exist. Just because the majority doesn't belong in it's camp doesn't mean it's made-up. As for how many Norwegians are high-jacking planes, very very few, if any at all. Norwegians, and the political circumstances they are in, don't really give much of a reason for even the most radical Norwegian youth to cause problems with commercial flight. I strongly believe that if the majority of Norwegian youth percieved their country, or any group they belong to, to be under attack by the rest of the world, a lot more Norwegian youth would want to cause problems with commercial flights.

    Yes... and that is precisely why I don't argue with those who post numerous comments against it on these forums. That is also exactly why I try to follow my religion the best I can as an individual, instead of going door to door trying to gain converts. Other people's opinions shouldn't matter, and I don't feel they do. In the long run, you don't see my religious beliefs affected by them. However, that doesn't erase the fact that these opinions exist. I didn't respond to them directly, but the person who started this thread merely asked how I felt about them, and I thought it was a good opportunity to discuss it without starting arguements.

    While I am not one of the people to make the standing Muslims have in society in post 9-11 America some sort of charity-case, to deny that it is significantly worse is foolish. I didn't say most Americans have a negative view of Islam. Many however do. Most Muslims aren't terrorists, most terrorist's do happen to be Muslim.
     
  14. aaminion00

    aaminion00 Stoned

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    True, and that is the issue that many terrorists most commonly use to rally support for their cause.
     
  15. Mescalhead

    Mescalhead Vincebus Eruptum

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    This is the internet. People like to cause mischief. There are a lot of children about. Nothing said here can be taken too seriously.

    Didn't you just say most Muslims are lean toward extremism?


    I was 15 once. I know how it can be tempting to be the 'misunderstood individual with the minority opinion'.

    Then why the concern for how many books are being sold?


    An untrue statement like that serves to further the rift between Muslims and those who are little informed on the subject. Maybe the books are right. If most are extremist, maybe it is a religion that should be exterminated? Nazis are extremists. Who wants them hanging around?



    But you said you were offended. If someone is offended by ideas or words, however deragatory, it is just as much the fault of the person who takes offence as the one who delivers. Hence the role you are willing to play by being an offended member of a subtly to outwardly persecuted group.


    Even if many do, how many act on them? Is the persecution endemic or known through hearsay?
     
  16. Lefty Scaevola

    Lefty Scaevola Moderatus Illuminatus Super Moderator

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    We see it off and on, one practitioner here was restricted by a moderator today, about 12 hour ago..
     
  17. aaminion00

    aaminion00 Stoned

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    If you hadn't seen it as you say, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Yes this is the internet, but there are people behind the avatars. The people on the forums that I have met with such opinions were not just doing it to "cause mischief".

    Yes... all religions have a potential for violence. That is true. Those who commit violence are the minority. That is also true. There is nothing special about Islam as a religion in reference to its disposition regarding extremism. Again, true. I'd be willing to assume that some majority of muslims in the modern world with the situation as it is in today's day and age, lean towards the extremist side of the spectrum (although they're not necessarily "extremist". To compare to political ideoligy, I'd say leaning towards the conservative end). Also true. This has nothing to do with the teachings of their religion however.

    Since you're older, I understand you're probably more mature, but I still don't think I fall under that.

    Because the more hateful books sold, the more people with anti-muslims feelings there are. Anti-muslim feelings can only lead to bad things.

    Well I sure don't want the nazi's hanging around, but I don't mind having Catholicism and Protestantism hanging around. The same way, I wish that the conservative feelings among many muslims would subside and sink back to the moderate stance on religion and such, while I hope Islam stays around throughout.

    So it is my fault for unlogical bashings on my religion that I have seen around? Or are you saying that I show weakness by admitting offense to their rants? Play being a part of a subtly persecuted group? I am a part of a subtly persecuted group. But as opposed to what you seem to think, I dont exclaim it everywhere I go to attract attention.

    "Persecution"? No, not quite the word. Just generally worse off. Are you saying that hate is acceptable if it doesn't lead to too much violence?
     
  18. Mescalhead

    Mescalhead Vincebus Eruptum

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    Again, I wouldn't worry too much about them.


    It seems our 'differences' of opinion fall victim to semantics. I don't hold the opinion that conservatism necassarily leads to or should usually be associated with extremism. Yes, most Muslims are very conservative. Would they be any more willing to kill for their faith than Christians and Jews? I would say most unlikely. I don't pair conservatism with extremism.

    You will see that expending energy on even a slightly emotional reaction to Islams detractors is a waste of time. Stay cold to other's comments because their opinions are irrelavent. What they say doesn't effect you unless it leads to violence. A significant amount of anti-Islamic violence will only happen after a major terrorist attack that is associated with Islamic fundamentalism. If it didn't happen 2 years ago, I would bet you are pretty safe.


    How are you generally worse off? I'm not countering what you mean. I'm just wondering what you mean.

    My opinion is that if prejudice doesn't harm you physically or leaves you economically poor, then it isn't your problem. People should be able to have their thoughts. I would rather be 'generally worse off' than having people tell me what I can and can't hate. Because when it comes to politics and the expression of opinions, time has shown lines between acceptability and unacceptability to be ill-defined and the slippery-slope effect all too prevalent.

    I believe that no one has to justify their hatred to anyone.
     
  19. lceman

    lceman Independent

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    Thank god for all talk and no action. You want to be offended by something? Go to Israel and personally witness the disgusting exchange of violence there. Ask someone who was alive in the south (USA) during the civil rights movements and disobediance during the 60s. Go to Africa and check into a hotel in the middle of one of the continents many civil wars. I'll take ignorant talk over the realities of acting upon it, anyday.
     
  20. Richard III

    Richard III Duke of Gloucester

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    Mescalmen, if you'd looked at his profile, you'd have seen he was closer to 25. :D And even if he's lying about his age, he's bang on in the sense that there is plenty of bigotry against Islam around here and elsewhere. I reported one post just yesterday. And I, too, am offended, because I would love to hear from lurkers like Akbar and I can only imagine how likely they'd be to post if all they saw was ignorant kaka pissing all over Islam.

    Iceman: the violence you're talking about starts somewhere, e.g. by convincing people on one side that the other side is worth killing. Words lead to deeds. I'll bet you that there's no shortage of folks who threw remarks around in pre-war yugoslavia who never realized how closely people were listening. Ditto Rwanda. Ditto Germany in 1933, etc.

    R.III
     

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