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Ashes of Erebus Emergent Leader Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Rise from Erebus Modmod' started by Nor'easter, Mar 1, 2018.

  1. Nor'easter

    Nor'easter Chieftain

    Joined:
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    I hope @black_imperator doesn't mind my starting a new thread for this. There's been some discussion of finalizing the remaining Emergent Leaders in AoE, so I thought it made sense to have a dedicated thread to discuss that, so as not to clutter up the main AoE thread.

    So I took a first stab at it. I focused on the Emergent Leaders listed in the Civilopedia whose Level 2 and Level 3 Traits remain blank, but I also did suggest some changes to the Level 2 and Level 3 Traits for a couple of the other leaders.

    My suggestions are in red underline. I basically tried to figure out what seemed a logical way to strengthen the Trait at each Level above Level 1. I don't know if this is the direction in which the team wants to go for any or all of these leaders, but I thought we could at least start the discussion, and hope it's helpful.


    ANGAAD -- BANNOR

    Imperialist Level 1

    +100% Great General Emergence

    Double Production Speed for Settler

    Imperialist Level 2

    +150% Great General Emergence

    Double Production Speed for Settler

    Conquered cities experience -25% :mad:

    Imperialist Level 3

    +200% Great General Emergence

    Double Production Speed for Settler

    Conquered cities experience -50% :mad:

    ATHEL REVUS -- KHAZAD

    Slaver Level 1

    Conquered cities lose half of their population, and spawn one slave unit for every two population lost

    +10% :gold:

    Free promotion (Slaver)

    -- Recon Units
    -- Archery Units
    -- Mounted Units
    -- Melee Units
    -- Arcane Units
    -- Disciple Units
    -- Animal Units
    -- Beast Units

    Double Production Speed for Slave Market

    Slaver Level 2

    Conquered cities lose half of their population, and spawn one slave unit for every one population lost

    +20% :gold:

    Free promotion (Slaver)

    -- Recon Units
    -- Archery Units
    -- Mounted Units
    -- Melee Units
    -- Arcane Units
    -- Disciple Units
    -- Animal Units
    -- Beast Units


    Double production speed for Slave Market

    Captured Slaves start with one free promotion

    Slaver Level 3

    Conquered cities lose half their population and spawn two slave units for every population lost

    +30% :gold:

    Free promotion (Slaver)

    -- Recon Units
    -- Archery Units
    -- Mounted Units
    -- Melee Units
    -- Arcane Units
    -- Disciple Units
    -- Animal Units
    -- Beast Units

    Double production speed for Slave Market

    Captured Slaves start with two free promotions

    CAPTAIN BLACKHEART -- LANUN

    Swashbuckler Level 1

    Free promotion (Amphibious, Drill I)

    -- Melee Units

    Swashbuckler Level 2

    Free promotion (Amphibious, Drill I, Drill II)

    -- Melee Units

    Swashbuckler Level 3

    Free promotion (Amphibious, Drill I, Drill II, Commando)

    -- Melee Units


    ELDER MALASA -- HAMSTALFAR

    Elder Level 1

    -50% :commerce: from :traderoute:

    +25% :gold: when at peace

    +100% :science: from :traderoute:

    Elder Level 2

    -35% :commerce: from :traderoute:

    +35% :gold: when at peace

    +150% :science: from :traderoute:

    Elder Level 3

    -25% :commerce: from :traderoute:

    +50% :gold: when at peace

    +200% :science: from :traderoute:

    GIMIL -- LUCHUIRP

    Craftmaster Level 1

    Grants Mobility [sic – should be “Mobility I (Golem)”] to all Golem units

    Craftmaster Level 2

    Recycling a Golem also grants an amount of Culture dependent on the Golem’s cost

    Grants Mobility I (Golem), and Mobility II (Golem) to all Golem units

    Craftmaster Level 3

    Grants Mobility [sic -- should be “Mobility I (Golem)”], Mobility II (Golem), and Commando (Golem) to all Golem units

    NOTE: I’m not entirely sure why there’s a separate Mobility I (Golem) promotion, but to stay consistent with that I’m proposing two new Golem-only promotions: Mobility II (Golem) and Commando (Golem).

    OPHELIA ROSENTHAL -- BANNOR, SCIONS, SHEAIM, DURAL

    Strategist Level 1

    Grants Battle Field Tactics [sic – should be “Battlefield Tactician”] to all Commander units

    Free promotion (Tactics I)

    -- Recon units
    -- Archery units
    -- Mounted units
    -- Melee units
    -- Arcane units
    -- Disciple units
    -- Animal units
    -- Beast units

    Strategist Level 2

    Grants Battlefield Tactician and Field Commander to all Commander units

    Free promotion (Tactics I, Tactics II)

    -- Recon units
    -- Archery units
    -- Mounted units
    -- Melee units
    -- Disciple units
    -- Animal units
    -- Beast units


    Strategist Level 3

    Grants Battlefield Tactician, Field Commander, and Battle Commander I to all Commander units

    Free promotion (Tactics I, Tactics II, Drill I)

    -- Recon units
    -- Archery units
    -- Mounted units
    -- Melee units
    -- Disciple units
    -- Animal units
    -- Beast units


    RAITLOR -- ILLIANS

    Trader Level 1

    +50% :food: from :traderoute:

    +50% :hammers: from :traderoute:

    +50 to starting :gold:

    Trader Level 2

    +75% :food: from :traderoute:

    +75% :hammers: from :traderoute:

    Trader Level 3

    +100% :food: from :traderoute:

    +100% :hammers: from :traderoute:

    RIVANNA THE WRAITH LORD -- SVARTALFAR

    Opportunistic Level 1

    -10% Civic upkeep

    Free promotion (Bounty Hunter)

    -- Recon units

    Opportunistic Level 2

    -20% Civic upkeep

    Free promotion (Bounty Hunter, Flanking I)

    -- Recon units

    Opportunistic Level 3

    -30% Civic upkeep

    Free promotion (Bounty Hunter, Flanking I, Commando)

    -- Recon units


    TETHIRA -- BANNOR

    Instructor Level 1

    Grants one free promotion to all built units

    Instructor Level 2

    Grants two free promotions to all built units

    Instructor Level 3

    Grants three free promotions to all built units

    THANATOS -- THE LEGION OF D’TESH

    Treacherous Level 1

    Free promotion (Treacherous)

    -- Recon units

    Treacherous Level 2

    Free promotion (Treacherous, Fit)

    -- Recon units

    Treacherous Level 3

    Free promotion (Treacherous, Fit, Subterfuge)

    -- Recon units


    TYA KIRI -- AMURITES

    Reckless Level 1

    Free promotion (Channeling II, Unready)

    -- Arcane units

    Reckless Level 2

    Free promotion (Channeling II, Unready, Mobility I)

    -- Arcane units

    Reckless Level 3

    Free promotion (Channeling II, Unready, Mobility I, Ambition)

    -- Arcane units


    ZARIA SCHERAS -- MEKARA ORDER

    Caretaker Level 1

    Allows training of Adjuncts, Agents, Caretakers, and Caretaker Matrons

    +6 :health:/city

    Free promotion (Medic I)

    -- Recon units
    -- Commander

    Double production speed for Infirmary

    Caretaker Level 2

    +8 :health:/city

    Free promotion (Medic I, First Aid)

    -- Recon units

    Free promotion (Medic I, Field Medic I)

    -- Commander

    Double production speed for Infirmary

    Caretaker Level 3

    +10 :health:/city

    Free promotion (Medic I, First Aid, Fit)

    -- Recon units

    Free promotion (Medic I, Field Medic I, Field Medic II)

    -- Commander

    Double production speed for Infirmary
     
  2. Nor'easter

    Nor'easter Chieftain

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    After looking things over a bit more, I think changing Angaad and Raitlor from Emergent Leaders to Important Leaders might be something to consider.

    Angaad is currently an Emergent Leader with the Imperialist Trait. Several other Leaders also have the Imperialist Trait, bur are not Emergent Leaders. So creating three levels for the Imperialist Trait solely for Angaad might be confusing, since the other Imperialist Leaders wouldn't be leveling up. So I would suggest either making Angaad an Important Leader who starts with the Imperialist Trait, or have Angaad keep the Imperialist Trait but give it a different name in her case, maybe Expansionist, so you can have three levels.

    Similarly, Raitlor is an Emergent Leader with the Trader Trait, but again, several non-Emergent Leaders also have Trader. So as with Angaad, I would suggest either making Raitlor an Important Leader, or having her keep the Trader Trait but giving it a different name for her (Commercial?), so you can have three levels.
     
  3. black_imperator

    black_imperator Chieftain

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    I do not mind at all ^^

    Some remarks though. The doc you used is a bit old. There have been some changes in orientation for some of the leaders.

    In the case of Angaad and Raitor, the traits they currently have is mostly a placeholder that shows the direction their trait should take. they'll get a proper one in time.

    As for the concepts of the various leaders, here is what i wrote in another thread (?? means that the trait needs a change in name; but i haven't figured out the name yet) :



    Tya Kiri, Amurites : Unready (stronger arcane units but with potential backlash)

    Angaad, Bannor : ?? (offensive warfare and conquest oriented, maybe boost to flagbearers)

    Tethira, Bannor : Instructor ( focuses on unit training and command system)

    Goodreau, Grigori : Up to discussion, see Cassiel and Goodreau pedia entries

    Raitlor, Illians : ?? (this one involves a key change of gameplay for the Illians, at it represens the Illians after the defeat of Auric, meaning they cannot work towards ascension. It's possible that it may end up being more complicated than the default Emergent structure)

    Athel Revus, Khazad : Slaver (slavery, capture and cash)

    Blackheart, Lanun : Demon of the Deep (Drowning, Pillaging and Krakens)

    Gimil, Luchuirp : Craftsmaster (Golems)

    Kane, Malakim : Warlord (?) (represents the malakim pre-Empyrean, less focus on disciples, more on warfare)

    Rivanna the Wraith Lord : ?? ( focus on summons and shadow magic)

    Plus a few where the theme is less clear in my mind (Thanatos, Ophelia, Zaria)

    That's for the existing ones, there's also a couple of upcoming leaders ( at least one hippus, one elohim, one mercurian, a couple of infernals, one cualli)




    As for your general process, the simple strengthening of the trait is indeed a good baseline, and for some of those, it could probably work as is ( Slaver in particular, could very well work as you described). Some other would definitely need more work (Tethira for example, would be useful but very boring as is).

    The idea to design a leader is to generally think of its concept, and the bonuses that could go with it.

    an example with Rivanna the Wraith Lord :
    The name indicates a mage-oriented leader with a death and/or summon speciality. We already have both a Death leader (Naxus) and a summon leader (Nojah). We want to find what distinguish Rivanna from those. Like nojah, rivanna's summons will be illusions ( as svartalfar mages do that already), but we want them to be different, and more svartalfari. Where Nojah's summons give buff to allied cities, we want those to be more shadowy and frightening, they may cause fear and anger in nearby cities and stacks.
    Basically, rivanna's summons will have access to debuff auras to soften your enemies, not very useful in direct battle, but great in offensive support. We also want to play up the shadow relationship, so we could give an affinity for shadow mana to arcane units, maybe one that gives additional withdrawal, as they hide in the shadows and flee battle.

    Once you get a couple of those ideas, you can start to organize them in the three trait levels to see if you have enough or not. I have not done that yet for Rivanna, so more ideas are still welcome for her ^^
     
  4. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    Here is a thought. Debuffs in general are in my view not so great because you can only use one per mage per turn and so unless you have a stack of specialized mages you only really pick up one, maybe, if that. So what if you gave Rivanna the ability to have summoned units automatically apply what ever debuff the mage that summoned them can cast?

    So like:
    Level 1:
    Arcane units get a shadow affinity that makes them less likely to be targeted in combat scaling by shadow mana.

    Situational and relatively weak but flavorful.
    Level 2:
    When a summoned creature attacks a stack it tries to apply all the debuffs the mage that summoned it can cast on that stack. Same success chance as if it was cast by the mage.

    So if the mage can cast rust there is a chance that the stack her summons attacked also get rusted.

    Relatively strong with the potential to be really strong but only with a big investment.
    Level 3;
    All summoned units get shadow affinity and cause the fear effect.

    Ultimate capstone ability. Strong, but balanced by the time and effort needed to get there.
     
  5. black_imperator

    black_imperator Chieftain

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    passive area debuffs were what i had in mind, like the muris goblins and health in nearby cities for example. though your ideas are interesting too
     
  6. Nor'easter

    Nor'easter Chieftain

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  7. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    The thing about passive debuffs to nearby cities is that they are mostly irrelevant because of the massive debuff that is your army standing on a tile next to said city.
     
  8. black_imperator

    black_imperator Chieftain

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    we can also do passive debuffs to nearby units ^^ (and we do control the range of both types of debuffs)

    Sciamancer is a possibility, but i'm tempted to just keep Wraith Lord
     
  9. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    I prefer Wraith Lord too. It just sounds more ominous.
     
  10. Nor'easter

    Nor'easter Chieftain

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    Wraith Lord for the name of Rivanna's Trait works for me.
     

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