"Asian guys in my show? Not gonna happen!"

[Sommerswerd]

Hollywood, network TV, American media, etc, treat Asians (of all nationalities/ethnicities) pretty poorly overall, with tons of marginalization, ridicule, stereotyping, and so-on. However...

Hollywood just abjectly fails to get anything right about history, creates one caricature after another, but worse, it persists to present day. People would be horrified if they did that to African-Americans.

This comment is false. The point of this thread is to talk about Asians being ill-treated, not Blacks and I respect that, so I won't soapbox/hijack too much, but I will at least say that Blacks have been and are widely and continually misrepresented and caricatured in both historical and modern depiction, and no one is "horrified" by it. Most of it just passes as "normal".

NO! You don't get a pass for that. No one would dream of doing a white person imitating an African-American. It would be considered extremely poor taste.

This is also false. (Tropic Thunder for example featured Robert Downey Jr. in full blackface and got an Oscar nomination!!) Against Blacks, this type of thing may occasionally illicit more outcry and/or scorn, typically from political opponents and/or media critics of the party being called-out (therefore making the scorn decidedly disingenuous), but Black-stereotypes get invoked and imitated all the time, without any significant outcry that it was "in poor taste."

To the extent that modern media outlets are more careful in mocking/stereotyping Blacks, keep some things in mind.

1. Civil Rights movement - Where people were fire-hosed, dog-sic'd, burned, hanged, jailed, assassinated etc, on national/global TV/media to bring attention to mistreatment of Blacks. This may account for why people are slightly more cautious in their treatment of Blacks.

2. Modern Protests/riots - The Rodney King riots, Ferguson, etc have established a precedent that there is a risk that Blacks will cause huge amounts of trouble and risk injury and arrest when there is a perception of gross mistreatment.

3. Population - The Asian population is lower than that of Blacks. In a democracy, smaller numbers can often mean smaller voice.

These are just some ideas why stereotyping/ridicule of Blacks gets more attention than similar mistreatment of Asians.

 

[Narz]

These are just some ideas why stereotyping/ridicule of Blacks gets more attention than similar mistreatment of Asians.

Also Asians are too busy working hard to worry about every stupid thing some idiot in the media says about them.

 

[Crackerbox]

I say Hah! See the internment of the Japanese-Americans during WW2. Further look to immigration restrictions, a disallowal of intermarriage by legal means, and couple that with an inability for Asians to even become Americans forever. Asians might add the hypehen because they were NOT allowed to be American citizens.

In America there has been a concerted effort to dehumanize Asians due to concerns about the "Yellow Peril".

No one is dismissing that African-Americans have truly suffered. My point (which was obviously lost) is that in postmodern times, if one persisted in these rotten stereotypes of African-Americans, most people would cringe. Even if 100% of Americans don't like the rotten Tropical Thunder blackface scene, yellowface persists in Hollywood in so many films that it borders the ridiculous. That there is tacit approval over and over again by the Left and the Right, and the very same caricatures in 1965 still happen in 2015.

 

[NetGear]

Well there is that Asian guy in walking dead that's banging that pretty hot chick in walking dead. But then again I guess it takes an apocalypse to have an Asian guy hook up with a white chick in the media.

 

[Crackerbox]

Well there is that Asian guy in walking dead that's banging that pretty hot chick in walking dead. But then again I guess it takes an apocalypse to have an Asian guy hook up with a white chick in the media.

Yeah, it's a happy accident since she's got limited choices. Even more so, they made her a Southern rural woman so it's even more implausible based upon the typical depiction in Hollywood.

The truth is it happens and isn't all that rare. The truth is after many generations, it becomes less and less of an issue.

The problem is that Hollywood becomes the arbiter of reality. We take what we see on the screen to be True, when it's seldom anything close to the truth in terms of the depiction of what is attractive, what is beauty, what has worth, what is good, etc.

After awhile, that narrowing down of those things then becomes imposed upon young children who look to it as a communications device. This becomes less and less so as fewer and fewer young people sit to watch tv, but still the programs are downloaded through Netflix.

It used to be that you put in some ethnic actors within the main story of white folks coping with conflict. Then niche television was invented. Now there's some improvement with some positive role models in film and television.

Imagine a tv show on say the samurai and the main cast is white. Well, it would strain credibility. Isn't that the point of the OP?

 

[Borachio]

Hmm. The problem can be a really subtle one, imo. Or not so subtle. Appropriation of culture is particularly problematic.


Link to video.

Mind you, I don't know. I've not seen the whole film. How does it turn out?

And it doesn't have much if anything to do with the OP.

 

[Hygro]

... worry about every stupid thing some idiot in the media says about them.

I've never met any black who fit this description. I'm having trouble understanding how you draw such a conclusion without letting media images drive you to stereotype people.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Also Asians are too busy working hard to worry about every stupid thing some idiot in the media says about them.

And I guess an extension of your point is that since Blacks have such a high relative unemployment rate there are more Blacks available to get outraged about mistreatment, media or otherwise... since they don't have jobs to be "working hard at." Another way of looking at it is: more hardship+less opportunity = more complaining... but I don't know if that is what you meant.

It is an interesting issue you raise... Are you saying that Asians allow this mistreatment because they are "too busy" to stand up for themselves? Or are you saying that Asians are partly to blame because don't consider the media mistreatment to be significant/hurtful/harmful enough to be worth missing work, or reducing their productivity to complain about it? Or that Asians have enough upward mobility/opportunity that it is easier for them to shrug off negative media portrayals as "trivial" because the negative portrayals are not having any significant economic impact on them?

 

[Narz]

I've never met any black who fit this description. I'm having trouble understanding how you draw such a conclusion without letting media images drive you to stereotype people.

It's not really everyday black folk but those who want to exploit them like Al Sharpton, etc. I've met one or two black guys in the streets/parks who really are angry at white people, maybe they have good reason to be, I dunno, but they bring it up alot. Most who lack mental illness do not.

 

[Crackerbox]

Part of being the "model minority" is being told by your parents that you're supposed to stay quiet, work within the system since it's obvious by media images and history that Asians are unwanted in America. So Asians studied hard, are in extremely high numbers in graduate school, very high numbers are represented in any profession like that, and so some Asians have a higher standard of living.

But the newer Asians who come in the 1st generation have a lot of difficulty. They congregate into neighborhoods to be around similar faces like themselves, and so Asian-Americans have a lot of poverty in this group. They don't stay long because their parents push them, rinse repeat.

Asians try not to complain. We figure eventually it will turn around. Being older, I've seen that in spite of success, economic and in academia, then still the same stereotypes persist. It's daunting and tiresome in 2015 to hear snide remarks in a fast food restaurant when an Asian walks in and hear the singsong mockery of how they perceive us to talk, even though we have no accent as we're many generation away from that.

We don't try to create a political force. We don't riot. We don't march. We educate ourselves and teach our children to do so as well.

When was the last time you heard of Asians fighing for tax dollars in America? It just doesn't happen.

 

[Narz]

It is an interesting issue you raise... Are you saying that Asians allow this mistreatment because they are "too busy" to stand up for themselves? Or are you saying that Asians are partly to blame because don't consider the media mistreatment to be significant/hurtful/harmful enough to be worth missing work, or reducing their productivity to complain about it? Or that Asians have enough upward mobility/opportunity that it is easier for them to shrug off negative media portrayals as "trivial" because the negative portrayals are not having any significant economic impact on them?

Was an off the cuff comment. Does seem like Asian culture in general doesn't get off on outrage in the same way Americans do. Americans love outrage (left, right, black, white) whereas yeah, Asians seem to tend to shrug off such nonsense & get on with making money/achieving goals. Obviously Asians have feelings too but unlike Americans they don't fetishize them. In my mind a whiny Emo wondering what it's all worth is kind of the opposite of a sterotypical hard working Asian kid who figures he'll succeed/please his parents/etc & then worry about such existential questions.

I kind of fetishize these Asain beliefs (and focus/discipline) to be honest. Also, how do you guys get your children to be so quiet/still/focused (with the parents, as a teacher Asian kids are just as likely to be annoying students but in the presence of their parents they are usually so quiet as opposed to my daughter who pretty much never shuts up, note : I love her dearly of course).

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Who's the audience for this show? Are the interested in seeing Asian guys on it?

 

[Crackerbox]

Was an off the cuff comment. Does seem like Asian culture in general doesn't get off on outrage in the same way Americans do. Americans love outrage (left, right, black, white) whereas yeah, Asians seem to tend to shrug off such nonsense & get on with making money/achieving goals. Obviously Asians have feelings too but unlike Americans they don't fetishize them. In my mind a whiny Emo wondering what it's all worth is kind of the opposite of a sterotypical hard working Asian kid who figures he'll succeed/please his parents/etc & then worry about such existential questions.

I kind of fetishize these Asain beliefs (and focus/discipline) to be honest. Also, how do you guys get your children to be so quiet/still/focused (with the parents, as a teacher Asian kids are just as likely to be annoying students but in the presence of their parents they are usually so quiet as opposed to my daughter who pretty much never shuts up, note : I love her dearly of course).

You allow them to buy books from age three onwards, and make learning to be an integral part of the human experience. You encourage them to love diverse music instead of sticking to solely one kind. You reward them for their grades and insist that teaching is a noble profession and perhaps the highest profession of all is the Sensei.

 

[Joecoolyo]

I think that Hollywood feels it's okay to stereotypes Asians because the stereotypes are mainly positive. I mean, Asians are the "model" minority. But this does put a sort of barrier between me and my non-Asian classmates. I remember that I once swore in front of a white classmate, and she looked so surprised and said something along the lines of "I never expected this of you."
I was so shocked and embarrassed I never swore in front of her again.

That's one of the overlooked problems with positive stereotypes. Being Jewish, we have them as well, and they create a two-fold problem. One, it can lead to negative stereotypes (Jews are good with money, therefore they are rich, therefore they control the world) and secondly, it punishes those who don't live up to the standard (poor and Jewish? how can that be?).

Stereotypes are always a losing scenario.

 

[warpus]

There are two major negative stereotypes about my people, and they're both accepted by mainstream Anglo-saxon society as just fine (we drink and we're idiots). But I pretty much never see any Polish characters on TV portrayed as such on anyway - Jewish and east Asian stereotypes get a much worse treatment on TV. Much much worse. The jokes though are definitely better - Polish jokes are for the most part just altered blonde jokes. I know I have it good as a white guy who pretty much looks like a fine upstanding Englishman, but I wish that at least the jokes about my kind were clever and innovative. and funny.

 

[Crackerbox]

Gosh I have very positive stereotypes about the Polish based upon what happened to them in WW2 and since the women are so lovely and charming. The last Polish joke I heard was over thirty years ago.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

There are two major negative stereotypes about my people, and they're both accepted by mainstream Anglo-saxon society as just fine (we drink and we're idiots). But I pretty much never see any Polish characters on TV portrayed as such on anyway - Jewish and east Asian stereotypes get a much worse treatment on TV. Much much worse. The jokes though are definitely better - Polish jokes are for the most part just altered blonde jokes. I know I have it good as a white guy who pretty much looks like a fine upstanding Englishman, but I wish that at least the jokes about my kind were clever and innovative. and funny.

I actually think blonde jokes are more likely altered Polish jokes than the other way around...just based on timing. Basically, almost all "ethnic humor" is interchangeable across a variety of target groups, and the person telling the joke just chooses a target that the audience will be willing to laugh at.

 

[JollyRoger]

From some of the posts here, it appears that education is the Asian equivalent of a sports car.

 

[Crackerbox]

From some of the posts here, it appears that education is the Asian equivalent of a sports car.

Do you want to expand upon that? Are you saying that Asians can't make a sports car? Are you saying that some of the posts are made by uneducated people? Are you brave enough to qualify the statement or hide behind a weak allegation?

 

[jackelgull]

Do you want to expand upon that? Are you saying that Asians can't make a sports car? Are you saying that some of the posts are made by uneducated people? Are you brave enough to qualify the statement or hide behind a weak allegation?

Relax. He just means that education is as desirable to Asians as sports cars are to Americans.