… many have noted the greater occupational and educational success of U.S. black females relative to black males (see Taylor, 1992, p. 25). Black females earn 99.0% of white female annual earnings, versus 64.6% of white male earnings by black males (Jaynes & Williams, 1989, Table 6-5). (...) Even in contemporary Africa, the women appear much more industrious than the men (Lamb, 1987, p. 38).
I noticed this when I was in Africa. Well, not necessarily that women worked harder than men, but for a very traditional Muslim country, there were a lot of women in the workforce. In the market for example, it seemed like at least half of the vendors, if not more, were female and most of the vendors in street markets. You compare this to Turkey and Iraq, where just about 100% of the workers in the bazaar and the street are male.
Also, in Djibouti, I sometimes saw women who were wearing niqab working in the market and one employee in the bank wore niqab. You would never see a woman in Iraq or Turkey wearing that who also had a job. Djibouti is a conservative traditional country so I think this probably comes from women's employment just being more a part of the traditional culture and not that it came from some gender equality initiative.
However, I don't really think of this in terms of African women just being more industrious than men. I think perhaps it comes from trends (Yes I know what trends are) where female dominated industry has been more successful than jobs dominated by men. We see this happening in more developed industrial countries as well.
In the USA, I'm not sure what it is but I think there are some things like profiling that effect black men more than women. I remember Ike Turner made this statement about Rosa Parks:
When I heard about Rosa Parks, I didnt pay it no mind. Now, if a black man had refused to sit in the back of the bus and lived to tell, that would be something.
Now I know a lot of people are going to say, yeah this is Ike Turner, a man who abused his wife. However, I think there is some truth to this, that she would have been treated more harshly if she were a black man. In fact my grandmother when she lived in Louisiana had heard a similar story about a black man who was shot when he refused to go to the back of the bus. However, this was back in the 40s before the civil rights movement and there may have been some other circumstances, maybe he physically fought with people trying to move him or something.
If you think there is just some truth to that you should wander around in the company of a black man for a while.
"Maybe he physically fought with people trying to move him"...that would be about right...grab him and drag him, and if he resists shoot him. That's still the standard today.
The wage gap between males and females is endlessly debated. I'm not sure how it changes when you compare just white men and women but people also might want to analyze the data with age as a comparison.
I think that women are viewed as less threatening than men overall. When you add racial stereotyping into the equation, you can easily see one factor that may account for the difference in hiring/salary practices.
I will give you an example. How many Asian male pornstars have you seen in your life? Few? What about Asian females? A lot right? Why is that?
Is this because of wimpy libido and asexual nature of the Asian male "subculture?" Or is it because of the stereotypical depiction of Asian males in an undesirable asexual light?
Obviously, it is because of stereotypes. Asian females are stereotypically seen as being more sensual, desirable and sexually capable than Asian males. This stereotyping is reflected in pornography.
The same stereotyping principle applies to the hiring statistics. Black females are stereotypically seen as less threatening, more industrious and less criminal than males, and this stereotyping is reflected in the hiring practices.
I think that Crackerbox may be overstating the case of Asian American exceptionalism.
Still, he's right in that education is viewed as a vehicle of upward social mobility.
And Asian Americans aren't totally quiet. Thirty years ago, the government actually apologized and offered compensation for the internment camps for the Japanese Americans. This was the work of several decades by Civil Rights groups for Asian Americans. Civil Rights for Asian Americans never reached the feverish pitch the Civil Right's Movement for African Americans had, but it existed and it tried.
I think that Crackerbox may be overstating the case of Asian American exceptionalism.
Still, he's right in that education is viewed as a vehicle of upward social mobility.
And Asian Americans aren't totally quiet. Thirty years ago, the government actually apologized and offered compensation for the internment camps for the Japanese Americans. This was the work of several decades by Civil Rights groups for Asian Americans. Civil Rights for Asian Americans never reached the feverish pitch the Civil Right's Movement for African Americans had, but it existed and it tried.
I think that women are viewed as less threatening than men overall. When you add racial stereotyping into the equation, you can easily see one factor that may account for the difference in hiring/salary practices.
I will give you an example. How many Asian male pornstars have you seen in your life? Few? What about Asian females? A lot right? Why is that?
Is this because of wimpy libido and asexual nature of the Asian male "subculture?" Or is it because of the stereotypical depiction of Asian males in an undesirable asexual light?
Obviously, it is because of stereotypes. Asian females are stereotypically seen as being more sensual, desirable and sexually capable than Asian males. This stereotyping is reflected in pornography.
The same stereotyping principle applies to the hiring statistics. Black females are stereotypically seen as less threatening, more industrious and less criminal than males, and this stereotyping is reflected in the hiring practices.
You are probably right that racial stereotyping plays the most important role here.
Europeans have historically been highly patriarchal male-dominated societies (this was not always the case, but the last time Europe saw female-ruled societies was few thousand years ago - such as this culture). Such societies see "alien" men as threatening, but their women as potential mating partners.
This patriarchal nature of European (and not just European!) societies is probably the reason why stereotyping applies mostly to "stranger" males, but not to their females. In Europe where there is little variation in skin color, you didn't historically have "White solidarity" like in the USA - you still had racism, but instead of skin color people used differences in language, religion, ethnicity etc. to construct racist stereotypes. In Yugoslavia, where almost all of the inhabitants were Slavic, they still had racist stereotypes about people from each Slavic ethnic group (like Slovenes being mingy and Montenegrins being lazy, etc.):
In the USA initially there was also lack of solidarity between various ethnic groups within "Whites". WASPs looked down on Eastern European and Southern European immigrants, just like they did on Asian and Black people. The reason why it is no longer the case is because Eastern Europeans and Southern Europeans look pretty much the same as those WASPs did, so after learning how to speak English they were no longer perceived as "aliens" and could fully integrate with culture of the majority. Black and Asian people have distinctive appearance so they continue to be recognized as "unusual, not part of the majority".
Of course as you noticed different stereotypes apply to different groups.
This video is about how "White unity" emerged in the USA, while no such thing previously existed in Europe (look for example at times of WW2 - Germans did not even consider their Slavic-speaking neighbours part of the same race as them, even though there is little or no difference in appearance):
I suppose the word tried is misleading. I meant that Asian Americans aren't passive in their efforts and have won success, despite not adopting the same tactics as the African American Civil Right's Movement.
I think that Crackerbox may be overstating the case of Asian American exceptionalism.
Still, he's right in that education is viewed as a vehicle of upward social mobility.
And Asian Americans aren't totally quiet. Thirty years ago, the government actually apologized and offered compensation for the internment camps for the Japanese Americans. This was the work of several decades by Civil Rights groups for Asian Americans. Civil Rights for Asian Americans never reached the feverish pitch the Civil Right's Movement for African Americans had, but it existed and it tried.
Nope. I don't believe in Asian-American exceptionalism whatsoever.
My point is to show that despite the subhuman caricatures depicted in media from the Yellow Peril to Postmodern times, in reality Asian-Americans are successful, not at all like the caricatures, but literate and patriotic in order to overthrow those caricatures. Don't get me started on that "compensation". A lot of Asian-Americans were disgusted that you'd offer a pittance as some sort of embarrasing admission of guilt and so purge white Euro-Americans and absolve them of that sordid history. Japanese-Americans were financialy ruined by that action. People took their businesses and homes. Japanese-Americans died in those camps. Some were shot. Are there valid cases of sabotage committed by Japanese-Americans during that period to have done internment camps at all? Don't go there. Start a new topic.
Nope. I don't believe in Asian-American exceptionalism whatsoever.
My point is to show that despite the subhuman caricatures depicted in media from the Yellow Peril to Postmodern times, in reality Asian-Americans are successful, not at all like the caricatures, but literate and patriotic in order to overthrow those caricatures. Don't get me started on that "compensation". A lot of Asian-Americans were disgusted that you'd offer a pittance as some sort of embarrasing admission of guilt and so purge white Euro-Americans and absolve them of that sordid history. Japanese-Americans were financialy ruined by that action. People took their businesses and homes. Japanese-Americans died in those camps. Some were shot. Are there valid cases of sabotage committed by Japanese-Americans during that period to have done internment camps at all? Don't go there. Start a new topic.
Yellow peril? Got it...reference to a wartime slur from seventy five years ago. Bad, perhaps even for wartime, but any relevance to the current day?
Insufficient compensation for an over-reaction, also going back to that same war...can't argue the point about the over-reaction, though it seems once again like a grudge that really takes an effort to hold so dearly when impact is at the very most secondhand.
Follow that up with forty year old car references being an issue you can pull out of thin air.
I think that you are really stretching to play the poor me fighting evil prejudices card. I can't say that I have a lot of exposure to Asian Americans, but what I have had does not give me the impression that your gigantic chip on the shoulder is widely held.
Yellow peril? Got it...reference to a wartime slur from seventy five years ago. Bad, perhaps even for wartime, but any relevance to the current day?
Insufficient compensation for an over-reaction, also going back to that same war...can't argue the point about the over-reaction, though it seems once again like a grudge that really takes an effort to hold so dearly when impact is at the very most secondhand.
Follow that up with forty year old car references being an issue you can pull out of thin air.
I think that you are really stretching to play the poor me fighting evil prejudices card. I can't say that I have a lot of exposure to Asian Americans, but what I have had does not give me the impression that your gigantic chip on the shoulder is widely held.
The Yellow Peril got its organized start 120 years ago. It persists today with the idea that Asians are taking over. It particularly gets its impetus from the very large numbers of Chinese that exist as a percentage of total world population 1.4 billion of these 7 billion.
It also has risen and fallen in American history based upon WW2, the influx of Japanese money during the 1980s, and whatever polemics are used by various American politicians in different time periods.
The other poster clarified his position. That is suffice for me.
The reality is that the perpetual subhuman caricatures of Asians is an outgrowth of the original Yellow Peril, the decision not to allow Asian immigrants into America (the 1882 Chinese Exclusion Act), the disallowal of American citizenship (1952 the Walter McCarren Act which FINALLY allowed citizenship), and so forth.
Asian-Americans are forced to pretend that we're full citizens in America. The reality is a perpetual disregard of institutionalized bigotry. As a matter of fact, Asian-Americans because of anti-discrimination laws actually are in less numbers in medical school, for despite having better qualifications and grades and MCAT scores, to give them those slots would keep whites, Native Americans, African-American, and Hispanic-Americans in lower numbers. http://www.boston.com/news/educatio..._americans_are_being_shut_out_of_top_schools/
"High-achieving Asian-American students are being shut out of top schools around the country. Is this what diversity looks like now?
By Jon Marcus
April 17, 2011 “It’s a difficult time to be Chinese,” says Wong, a scientist who develops medical therapies. “There’s a lot of jealousy out there, because the Chinese do very well. And some people see that as a threat.”
Wong had these worries in mind last month as she waited to hear whether her older son, a good student in his senior year at a top suburban high school, would be accepted to the 11 colleges he had applied to, which she had listed neatly on a color-coded spreadsheet.
The odds, strangely, were stacked against him. After all the attention given to the stereotype that Asian-American parents put enormous pressure on their children to succeed – provoked over the winter by Amy Chua’s controversial Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother – came the indisputable reality this spring that, even if Asian-American students work hard, the doors of top schools were still being slammed shut in many faces.
And parents aren’t happy about it. “The entry barriers are higher for us than for everybody else,” says Chi Chi Wu, one of the organizers of the Brookline Asian American Family Network. “There’s a form of redlining or holding Asian-American students to higher standards than any other group.”
Although Asian-Americans represent less than 5 percent of the US population (and slightly more than 5 percent in Massachusetts), they make up as much as 20 percent of students at many highly selective private research universities – the kind of schools that make it into top 50 national rankings. But, critics charge, Asian-American students would constitute an even larger share if many weren’t being filtered out during the admissions process. Since the University of California system moved to a race-blind system 14 years ago, the percentage of Asian-American students in some competitive schools there has reached 40, even 50 percent. On these campuses, the so-called “model minority” is becoming the majority.
High-achieving Asian-Americans may be running into obstacles precisely because they work so hard. Mitchell Chang, an Asian-American studies professor at the University of California at Los Angeles, suggests that the attention given Chua’s book will only make things worse. “Her characterization can further tax Asian-American college applicants by reducing the chances that they will be viewed as self-starters, risk takers, and independent thinkers – attributes that are often favored by admissions officers but rarely associated with Asian-American applicants,” Chang wrote in a January Op-Ed in The Sacramento Bee.Continued...
So, he clarified that mentioning a car was not intended as a racial slur, and you have smoothed your feathers. Great.
Do you realize that this makes it look like any attempt to converse with you on the subject is like running headlong into a minefield? Mentioning cars, through a pretty dubious linkage, sets you off. What else does? Can I mention food? Maybe some, but I would be really cautious about rice. For all I can tell you might consider that to be an instant drop the gloves fighting word.
I'm not saying that bias against Asians doesn't exist. Some of your fellows here have made some good points, and that chip on your shoulder has demonstrated that it certainly can have caustic effects. But I still think that the most damaging thing to current day Asian Americans described in this entire thread is the reported behavior of their own parents.
So, he clarified that mentioning a car was not intended as a racial slur, and you have smoothed your feathers. Great.
Do you realize that this makes it look like any attempt to converse with you on the subject is like running headlong into a minefield? Mentioning cars, through a pretty dubious linkage, sets you off. What else does? Can I mention food? Maybe some, but I would be really cautious about rice. For all I can tell you might consider that to be an instant drop the gloves fighting word.
I'm not saying that bias against Asians doesn't exist. Some of your fellows here have made some good points, and that chip on your shoulder has demonstrated that it certainly can have caustic effects. But I still think that the most damaging thing to current day Asian Americans described in this entire thread is the reported behavior of their own parents.
Or perhaps black men receive a greater share of society's racism, particularly the "black men are a threat" thing many/most Americans have. Or perhaps sans racism, black women would be out-earning white women by 30%. We can't be drawing such convenient conclusions from that data.
I thought that topic was not only pretty well covered but completely abandoned to explore the racial slur qualities of 1977 Honda cars...
I might go down to the corner and call someone an old Honda just to see if they flip out...but my money is on they just look at me like I've lost my mind.
I think the common conception among white America is that Japanese, and now even Korean cars are high quality automobiles. Japanese cars certainly have been thought of as such since at least the 90s, and Korean cars sometime within the past 10 years. Reputations for cars change quickly, and old ones get forgotten.
There used to be a joke that Made in Japan meant cheap. This was before I was born. Two decades later, Made in Japan meant top quality. These are not enduring stereotypes, and when they existed, there was truth to them. Racists surely capitalized on it, but imports for a less advanced country trying to undercut your market when their manufacturers have less experience with the product are almost always going to be cheap. If those profits are reinvested toward tech growth and the firms stay in business long enough to master their trade, quality goes way up with it, conceptions.
So, he clarified that mentioning a car was not intended as a racial slur, and you have smoothed your feathers. Great.
Do you realize that this makes it look like any attempt to converse with you on the subject is like running headlong into a minefield? Mentioning cars, through a pretty dubious linkage, sets you off. What else does? Can I mention food? Maybe some, but I would be really cautious about rice. For all I can tell you might consider that to be an instant drop the gloves fighting word.
I'm not saying that bias against Asians doesn't exist. Some of your fellows here have made some good points, and that chip on your shoulder has demonstrated that it certainly can have caustic effects. But I still think that the most damaging thing to current day Asian Americans described in this entire thread is the reported behavior of their own parents.
I don't want to sound like I'm complaining about my parents. I have a lot of issues with them that I've never aired, but they're great parents, and considering what I've heard about other people's parents, mine sound great. In the end, I suppose I can wait until I have the financial ability to support myself to assert my independence from them.
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with it, conceptions.
