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Ask A Catholic III

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Jehoshua, Aug 6, 2011.

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  1. Jehoshua

    Jehoshua Catholic

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    Fulfillment. Everything that was anticipated in the jewish religion is fulfilled in the Catholic Church. The plan for judaism was as a preparation, a seed in anticipation of the flowering that would come with Christ, in this sense they are not two seperate things but rather different stages in a universal plan for humanity.

    I am not saying grace has to be renewed in the Eucharist (and the other sacraments), I am saying it has to be received in the sacraments. The sacraments must be recieved regularly and with perseverance because grace can be lost through sin and thus a regular and direct communion with Christ in the eucharist is necessary. This is to strengthen the soul and sanctify it further into ever closer conformity to Christ. This is also very practical in regards to avoiding sin, as if you are always to be prepared for recieving Christ into your house in ancticipation of the mass and the eucharist, one always has in mind the cultivation of his own holiness so that his soul and his house may be ready for Christs reception.

    As to redemption, man is already redeemed, the door is opened. It is not a matter of redeeming himself again. However man still has to walk through the door. Salvation is a process and not a singular event, one still has to walk along the winding path and through the narrow gate to get to heaven, its not a matter of Christ teleporting you from the bottom to the top in a single instant because the end-point of salvation is when your through the gate, when your in heaven.

    As to faith and works. You have a wrong definition of faith. Faith does not equal belief. True faith includes action and belief in one coherent whole, one is not the product of the other. If you have faith then that faith is lived in action. If not than you lack faith and merely have belief for as it is written, Faith without works is dead, this is because the two are in fact one and indivisable.

    One final thing. Of course it makes sense, although you still do not comprehend fully. Christianity (well at least Catholic Christianity) is the faith according to reason. It is the religion of the Logos!
     
  2. Jehoshua

    Jehoshua Catholic

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    The Law of Christ is binding and is the fulfillment of the mosaic law yes.

    However I am afraid you appear to have veered into error and confusion as to what the law actually is.

    When it says in John that Christ brought grace and truth, the gospel is not saying that that is distinct from and different from the law, afterall Christ broke not one letter of the law. Instead what is being said is that to the unfulfilled anticipatory law of moses in anticipation of the saviour, Christ fulfilled that Law to its ultimate end. This being done by confirming the new covenant which brought to fallen men the truth that liberates him and the grace that saves his soul completing the Law in its ultimate intent and imparting conclusion and fulfillment.

    Also where you say that when we sin we are servants to the law that is not correct. When we sin we are violating the law. Indeed if what you were saying was the case then Christ would of been the worst of sinners because as it is written He broke not one letter of the Law. Just a point I will make here, the bible is not meant to be interpreted through picking out passages here and there and attempting to discern some truth from that one passage. The entire bible is meant to be taken together as a coherent whole. Ultimately picking and choosing certain passages and making doctrine from them without reference to the whole deposit of faith is basically asking for error.

    addendum: What is being said in romans is that we are no longer bound to follow the old covenant. In particular since Paul was talking in the context of jews he was talking about commands applying specifically to jews and how they are no longer applicable since the new covenant is universal and superceded the old covenant and its specific laws regarding the jewish nation.
     
  3. timtofly

    timtofly One Day

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    Why do you say I have the wrong definition of Faith? Your Faith is belief and reason and works? My Faith = belief? You do realize that the devils believe and tremble. If Faith is belief, then they can be saved also?

    My Faith is trusting God and acting on that trust by giving up ones will to the Will of God. Jesus said not my will, but thine be done. Abraham was about to kill Isaac when God stopped him. I never left "actions" out of my definition. One does not need to reason out Faith, one must do it. As long as works do not include keeping the law, nor even taking the sacraments, then we are on the same page. Where does it list the sacraments in the fruit of the Spirit? If grace is lost through sin, then it is not unmerited grace, it is grace based on works/actions? In Judaism, grace was lost by sin and had to be renewed through sacrifices. Has the only thing that changed is the form? Wouldn't that be a renewed covenant and not a New Covenant? Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us?
     
  4. Jehoshua

    Jehoshua Catholic

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    Firstly you are confused in one area. When I said (Catholic) Christianity is the faith according to reason, that equals religion according to reason. In that sentence I am using faith in its usage as meaning religion (so the hindu faith, the muslim faith, the shinto faith, the bahai faith etc etc) not in the sense of faith the state of being.

    Secondly sacraments are not fruit of the spirit, they are things that impart grace. When one recieves that grace and renews it and nurtures that, it is then that the fruits of the spirit reveal themselves.

    As to grace it can be lost even though it is unmerited, this is because holding onto and accepting the grace of God is a choice, if you reject that grace which is freely given by indulging in sin and rejecting Gods gift, then that mars the soul and that grace is diminished and in the case of mortal sin destroyed along with the soul. (thus necessitating absolution). It is not a case of a free ticket to heaven via unmerited grace, you still have to walk the long road to reach the door.

    As to the covenant, it is a new and everlasting covenant, but it is the fullfilment of the old, not the rejection or utter change of it. Thus the things that are pre-figured in judaism find completion in the new covenant and are not overturned but fulfilled. So for example the jewish animal sacrifices find their completion in the one sacrifice of the lamb of God which is made accesible to us in the eucharist.
     
  5. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Deity

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    I don't know much about other countries, but I'm not even talking about individuals with my question. Its more a matter of the fact that it seems to be a common thing in Catholicism.

    That said, in Australia it could be totally different.
     
  6. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

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    Well overall Protestants in the US tend to be anti-government whereas Catholics have no problem with the government in general. This is because Protestantism is overall focused much more on the self whereas Catholicism tends to focus more on the group. Personally I view social conservatism and "fiscally liberal" as you say as consistent where as the other two you listed are hypocritical, the fourth option is a libertarian.
     
  7. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Deity

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    I don't totally understand what you mean by this...

    Well, I am a fan of the "Fourth Way" myself, but I do understand what you are getting at here:

    So, can you be a libertarian Catholic without being considered heretical?
     
  8. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

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    Well many Protestants tend to be far more individualist and and group where each person only cares about themselves there tends to be not so much government

    Distributionist yes, libertarian kind of contradicts a lot of Church teaching.
     
  9. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Deity

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    I can only speak for myself, but for me my opposition to government has less to do with things being about me and more because the government is corrupt, giving should be voluntary, and we shouldn't force moral standards on other people.

    Just wondering, but ignoring the abortion part of the whole thing (In which there are as many pro-life Libertarians as there are pro-choice Libertarians anyways) how does a Libertarian political philosophy contradict the Church (And in what sense? Does it cotradict established dogma or merely opinions?)
     
  10. Takhisis

    Takhisis Jinping, wer fragt uns?

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    up yours!
    I'll say it again, you're applying a definition of 'liberal' and so forth that only applies in the US.
     
  11. hossam

    hossam Deity

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    okay i have a theological question, and im not sure if youll be able to answer, but here goes. one more thing, i apologize if this question has been asked of you dont wish to discuss it.

    ok , so why didnt god just make one religion, and make sure that no other man made religion surfaces. god is omniscient so he should have seen all the trouble it would cause by having a bunch of religions with each group convinced that theirs is the best
     
  12. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

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    Because that's a complete violation of free will which God specifically wanted thus defeating the entire point?
     
  13. hossam

    hossam Deity

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    its not really free will if the only reason your doing what god wants is because you dont want to burn in hell for eternity.
     
  14. timtofly

    timtofly One Day

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    What religion do you think God made? What is your definition of religion? Should one not pursue God? It is not free will if one did not have a choice? Seems to me, if someone makes a choice it is because it is good, not because they were forced to. Now if one feels compelled to do something out of obligation, it is no longer free will, and no choice was made. Choosing something is not wrong is it? There is freedom in choice believe it or not. There are some people who choose some things because they have peace in the choice, not because they were forced to.
     
  15. Theov

    Theov Deity

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    He basically asked why god went through the trouble of us humans inventing multiple religions. Why didn't he just plant one religion in our heads.
    Should one pursue god? I dunno, I don't think so at all, why would one?
    And with freedom of choice, why would god implement that in his childeren when the punishment for not doing what he wants is eternal punishment in hell?
    Sounds like a mafia boss to me. "You can do what you want, but if you don't do what I say, you'll be gone to hell forever."
     
  16. timtofly

    timtofly One Day

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    Maybe He did not want us to have any religion? Maybe He just wanted friends who were at peace with each other and never imposed any laws on any one? Did God punish Adam in hell? Was not hell only for satan? Maybe satan wants friends also? Where is this punishment coming from a child's perspective?
     
  17. hossam

    hossam Deity

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    dont know what religion god made, and so far i haven't found a religion that i like.

    religion:a body of texts that contain spiritual verses used during prayer ,also it may have instructions and rules about how you should live your life.

    no it isnt, that sentence is such an oxymoron.

    im sure im not the only child who had adults tell me like you'll go to hell if you make god angry/dont pray, go read the quran, and other . Now if i want to convert to another religion i either have to leave the country or stay one the down low.
     
  18. Takhisis

    Takhisis Jinping, wer fragt uns?

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    up yours!
    Religion doesn't need 'texts' orthings written down, you know…
     
  19. Jehoshua

    Jehoshua Catholic

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    @Timtofly, this is ask a catholic, don't answer other peoples questions.

    -

    As to why God didn't just obliterate incorrect religions or prevent them from occuring. The reason is ultimately one has to choose to seek God. God wants a genuine relationship with mankind and thus he permits man free will to choose whether to enter into a relationship with him, or to not.

    Now as to your point this leads on into the question of damnation. Let me just say that God throws no one into hell. This is absolutely true since the one who throws he who turns away from God into hell is the sinner himself. Evil and sin cannot exist before the infinite perfection of God, it burns more fiercely and painfully for the sinner to stand in the face of God than to go to hell, and thus he flees as far away from God as possible and God permits this because he accepts the free choice of the soul. Hell in this sense is God's mercy, not his punishment.
     
  20. hossam

    hossam Deity

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    so, when did they invent heaven/earth space communications. ill delete this if theres anything in the bible that describes what you said. also,dont heathens and infidels always go to hell?
     
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