1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Ask A Catholic

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by civ_king, Feb 18, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Messages:
    22,753
    Location:
    Wherever my name is posted
    Its an issue, but its something a few Catholic priests are doing, not all of them. And even if that's not true, what do you expect Catholics to say?

    Obviously God doesn't endorse that stuff.

    I'm not even Catholic, and you probably know that my opinion on them is quite negative, but this sort of criticism is unnecessary.
     
  2. PeteAtoms

    PeteAtoms FormulaRandom

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    3,722
    Location:
    Land of Ooo
    Any experience with the actual Church as far as the overarching organization? How bureaucratic is it? If it is, do you think this is a problem that can be fixed?

    How much unity do Catholics in L.A. feel with Catholics in Asia or Catholics in Brazil? Is there a sense of "Yes, we are all on the same team." Or do you think Catholics in LA feel more unity with the Protestants or Jews down the street? ('unity' might be the wrong word, maybe closeness or allegiance).

    Are you a Catholic or citizen of your country first?

    If the Pope called for a new Crusade (as crazy as that sounds), how readily will you take up arms or abandon your current way of life to participate in the effort?

    Confessing your sins to the priest, awkward or what? It's not like that little booth provides anonymity... Have you ever withheld some deep shameful sin because of this? Or if you haven't, was it at all awkward the next time you saw the Priest in social situations?

    This seemed to be the one thing I feel Protestants got right in the reform, no offense. But the idea of confessing to the Priest as a middleman with God seems redundant. Asking the Head Honcho Himself seems far more efficient and less embarrassing. Or is shame part of the forgiveness process?
     
  3. Communisto

    Communisto Condottiere

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    5,461
    Location:
    The Frozen North
    It's more than a few. It's a chronic, re occurring thing that the church is doing nothing about. It doesnt take a divine spark to notice that something is wrong. Were talking about an organization in which many people send their young children into with complete trust. Imagine for a second that we were talking about a chain of day care centres. If this happened even twice over the last 10 years, that chain wouldnt exist anymore.

    There have been hundreds of cases within the Catholic church over the past few decades, and those are just the ones that we know about. Im not trying to be disrespectful, but as an agnostic in a Catholic family, this is the way I see the Church potentially affect communities the most, and the poor people who put their faith in this organization (like my grandparents) are the ones who are coerced into indirectly aiding such a disgusting practice.

    Based on what?
     
  4. Takhisis

    Takhisis excuse me

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    43,382
    Location:
    up yours!
    Based on His own word. Now give it a rest, eh?
     
  5. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Messages:
    22,753
    Location:
    Wherever my name is posted
    It has nothing to do with avoiding shame, it has to do with what God's Word says.
     
  6. PeteAtoms

    PeteAtoms FormulaRandom

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    3,722
    Location:
    Land of Ooo
    I didn't say that Protestants differ on the issue because of avoiding shame. But I seem to recall Catholics being told to perform penance of some kind post-confession. I have no idea how that actually works, hence the question about confessions.
     
  7. Communisto

    Communisto Condottiere

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    5,461
    Location:
    The Frozen North
    Im asking Catholics, this is in my opinion the most important issue within the church, what is wrong with my question?
     
  8. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Messages:
    22,753
    Location:
    Wherever my name is posted
    OK that makes sense.

    I was just explaining why Protestants differ.
     
  9. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    9,865
    Free will and all that fries, I presume.
     
  10. Communisto

    Communisto Condottiere

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    5,461
    Location:
    The Frozen North
    I had thought of that deflection

     
  11. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    16,368
    No, saints were more pious than us and obeyed the rules better.
    No, the Church is surprisingly decentralized, the set up is just very different from everything else.

    I don't think most Catholics care

    In what context? In any situation where I have to choose between the US and the Church, I pick the Church.

    I'm so confused, what possible situation would demand a crusade?

    It is a little awkward at first, but once you realize the priest is a stand in for Christ it stops being awkward. No I've never skipped because that makes the confession invalid.

    Dunno why, you should have asked Jesus since he set up reconciliation.
    The problem is you are making things that happened 1950s-1970s and acting like it is currently happening.
     
  12. PeteAtoms

    PeteAtoms FormulaRandom

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    3,722
    Location:
    Land of Ooo
    What part of your faith was the hardest to understand or embrace growing up (or while being taught the faith)?

    From the perspective the outsider (hence this thread) there are lots of questions we have with the faith, and some are alien and hard to embrace.

    What posed a similar problem for you? What part of your religion did you most struggle with or needed to study the most to fully embrace?

    (This is obviously a personal question, will be different for each Catholic)
     
  13. GhostWriter16

    GhostWriter16 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Messages:
    22,753
    Location:
    Wherever my name is posted
    What about pious people who obeyed the rules that the Pope/Church Hierarchy never found out about as they weren't famous? Too bad for them?
     
  14. kochman

    kochman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    10,818
    And how the hell do you know that? Judge not lest ye be judged... You really think there isn't a person ever alive who was more pious and better at "obeying the rules" than any of the many many saints? That's sheer lunacy.
    Aren't there some prior Pope saints that have since been discovered to be real dirtbags?
    What about the following Pope?
    St. Ambrose in Milan

    How about these non sainted Popes? (http://www.oddee.com/item_96537.aspx)
    Stephen VI, 896 to 897
    Benedict IX, 1032 to 1044
    Sergius III, 897 to 911 (who fathered a bastard that later became... the Pope!)
    John XII, 955 to 964
    Leo X, 1513 to 1521
    Alexander VI, 1492 to 1503
    Innocent IV, 1243 to 1254
    Urban VI, 1378 to 1389
    John XV, 985 to 996
    Clement VII, 1523 to 1534


    Decentralized compared to what? The Soviet Union? It is HUGELY organized and centralized... more than any other denomination in Christianity that I am aware of (sorry mormons, you may be more centralized, I don't know).

    In case you guys haven't noticed, Civ King is a fanatic.

    He pre-empted this answer with "as crazy as it sounds"... the catholic was asked if he would take up arms if the Pope asked... would you?

    Why does Christ need a corporeal stand in? Is He not God Himself? Is He just too busy? Please explain the scriptural basis for this spiritual hierarchy that Catholics have set up where Popes, priests, Mary and saints are all more in touch and actually listened too...

    Please explain how Jesus set up this confessional system where you have go to a priest to be forgiven. I thought he set up the reconciliation when He died for our sins... That's what He said in the Bible anyhow.

    WOW, so, you deny that there is currently molestation happening? Really?
    It has been happening ever since priests mainly stopped sleeping with the nuns... They moved onto little boys. The numbers are huge... and you are acting like it is completely gone from the RCC now? So, if we hear of new cases?
    What was it about the 50s-70s that made it so prevalent? Was that just a horny period? Molestation has been a constant, please don't act like it was some isolated event.
     
  15. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    42,459
    Location:
    Pale Blue Dot youtube=wupToqz1e2g
    We know their prayers were more effective, because that's why they're saints (i.e., God moved through them). It followed naturally from the idea that God moves more through the pious than the non-pious.

    Additionally, we commonly ask other people to pray for us. It happened at my church nearly every Sunday. So, sure, there're probably many people alive who're more pious than others, and (I think) we sometimes ask them to pray for us. This is why some churches have healing ministries, and why some priests have specialties. You gotta work within the theme! Part of it is asking others to pray, which is something we're commonly aware of despite denomination.

    That said, I've never approached one of my more faithful buddies and intoned dozens of times a phrase requesting that they pray for me ...
     
  16. kochman

    kochman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    10,818
    Ok, so can you then explain the St/Pope mentioned above, and the other popes (not sainted)... and how "God moved through them" more than any other non-clergy person ever?
     
  17. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    42,459
    Location:
    Pale Blue Dot youtube=wupToqz1e2g
    No, I can't.
    I just don't find the concept of "asking a more pious person to pray for me" to be foreign :)
     
  18. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    16,368
    I never said they were more pious than any alive today. They are easily more pious than almost everyone.

    Saint Ambrose wasn't a Pope.

    There have been awful popes before, if the Church was an earthly institution it would have died.

    The Pope doesn't exactly exert much force on Eastern Catholics.

    If you had to choose between God and country what would you do?

    Obviously it would depend on the circumstances.

    DOn't have time to research this ATM

    If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

    More later
     
  19. Perfection

    Perfection The Great Head.

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    49,763
    Location:
    Salisbury Plain
    Are you saying the church is Holy because only the Holy could survive being so rotten?
     
  20. kochman

    kochman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    10,818
    Why?

    You are confusing God and the RCC. They are not at all the same...
    We asked if the RCC and your country had a conflict, where would you side?

    OK, so, you do not believe the Pope is infallible in this sense at least, am I correct?

    You can research it your whole life, but I will save you the time. Jesus certainly didn't set up the idea of going into a church and finding a priest to confess too. His teachings were much less organized. Human nature is what has led to the extreme organization and resulting corruption of the RCC.

    OK... so can I take confessions and officially forgive people then?
    I was really under the impression that we were forgiven by the death of Christ, and He showed us this with His resurrection, so long as we repent. Why did it become more organized/formal than that?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page