1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Ask A Red: The IVth International

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Cheezy the Wiz, Mar 12, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Cheezy the Wiz

    Cheezy the Wiz Socialist In A Hurry

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    25,238
    Location:
    Freedonia
    It is with great pleasure that I introduce the FOURTH serial "so you would like to know more about communism and socialism" thread!

    Remember that this is a question and answer thread and not for arguments. Critical response is welcome, tirade and polemic are not.

    That said, we are ready to field your questions!

    Ask A Red

    Ask A Red, Second Edition

    Ask A Red III


    List of posters approve to answer questions:

    Cheezy the Wiz
    RedRalph
    civver 764
    Traitorfish
    innonimatu
    Bast
    Richard Cribb
    FredLC
    Hygro
    ReindeerThistle
    Aelf
    Azale
     
  2. plarq

    plarq Crazy forever

    Joined:
    May 16, 2004
    Messages:
    6,158
    Location:
    None of the above
    First question, is this thread Trotskyist by nature?
     
  3. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Messages:
    19,964
    What is your opinion on Gorbachev?
     
  4. Richard Cribb

    Richard Cribb He does monologues

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2003
    Messages:
    4,291
    Just want to wish you good luck with the new thread. I also wish to give my welcome ReindeerThistle, a good man whose ideological stance seems to be close to that of my own. This is quite convenient, since I for personal reasons will be a rare guest to this thread. However, as the one who started this, I am amazed to see that this is the 4th thread. So quantitatively this enterprise must be characterized as a success at least...
     
  5. Cheezy the Wiz

    Cheezy the Wiz Socialist In A Hurry

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    25,238
    Location:
    Freedonia
    I knew the name would throw people off :lol:. No, but I wanted to come up with some sort of "themed" name for the serials, since that is the fun sort of thing to do with serial threads.

    Don't like him. I don't know enough about him to know if he really wanted to end socialism like some people say (there is a famous book about the end phase of the USSR called "Socialism Betrayed"), but from what I know of him he seems like a well-intentioned reformer who poorly mismanaged his reforms and unwittingly brought the house down. But today he is some sort of marketing spokesperson for a large corporation, so he doesn't seem to regret the Soviet Union's dissolution too much...

    Thank you. I highly encourage you to frequent this thread as often as possible, old friend. As for the thread, I am very happy with the way this thread has succeeded, a success in itself measured by its continued survival in a world beset by those who would destroy it. And ReindeerThistle's arrival has given it new life, a welcome invigoration of what can at times be a very slow moving thread indeed. Though that is not always a vice, especially on subjects that require great thought.
     
  6. ReindeerThistle

    ReindeerThistle Zimmerwald Left

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    3,048
    Location:
    Brooklyn, USA.
    True 'dat. Speaking from the M-Ls, Gorbachev did betray the USSR -- but socialism cannot be taken from a people, they must give it up. Gorbachev was the product of a diminished political education campaign. The red army during the civil war 1919 - 1921 spent 75% of its time in political education -- and they beat the pants off of the "whites." So, there you have it.

    There were 28 million communist cadre at the time of the dissolution of the USSR -- like they showed us in 1917, it is up to us in the US to show them how it's done!.

    Yes, well, thank you Cheezy for keeping this thread going, as well. Ignorance is the enemy of progress, and an ally to the status quo. Knowledge alone will not move us forward, but it is a start toward a practice to bring about a better world. Even Marxists have to follow the Laws of Thermodynamics -- and we view inertia as a far more dangerous entity than change -- and objects in motion tend to stay in motion.

    Let the queries begin!
    We shall now proceed to construct the socialist CFC order!

    BTW, you guys are way too kind. Thanks for the endorsement.
     
  7. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    9,891
    To the resident M-L: Do you view post-Stalin, pre-Gorby USSR, as qualitatively different from USSR at the time of Stalin, like some "anti-revisionist" movements do, event to the extent of withdrawing support from it?
     
  8. ReindeerThistle

    ReindeerThistle Zimmerwald Left

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    3,048
    Location:
    Brooklyn, USA.
    Hear me out, then you can decide for yourself.

    In short, Maosim is a political tendency that seeks to eidetically or at least theoretically insert the tactics of the Chinese revolution into a non-China setting.

    There were Maoist groups in the US, MIM is still around, but...
    Mao was not a Maoist, he was a Marxist-Leninist, see my other posts for the M-L perspective. He developed and institued a strategy of building a Peple's Liberation Army, PLA, establish associations to distribute needed goods to people and provide medical and legal access for the poor and workng people of China -- and through that recruit revolutionaries from the people to the Party. The PLA was an autonomous unit, which kept its autonomy in the united front against the Japanese and won some great battle victories.

    You cannot build a PLA in the United States -- it is not wise, because it is also illegal, I can't even begin to discuss it on this forum, or ever. I do not use or advocate violence and I was arrested and thrown in jail for my work -- and I was not doing ANYTHING ILLEGAL!

    So, if you want to brush up on Maoist understanding, read Mao's On Practice, Combat Liberalism and On Subjectivism and Lui Shao-chi's How to be a good communist. And then find a "Maoist" Party to join.

    Then you can be a Maoist.

    Thanks for the query.

    In short, yes.
    Part of the problem with the Stalin "cult of personality," something that was a matter of fact, was that everything became "Well, Stalin says...." and there was the currying of favor and the desire to be in the inner circle, which Staln himself could USE, but did not like.

    My position on the Kruschev secret speech (Kruschev, as you may recall, was the Political Commissar -- the counterpart to Marshal Zhukov -- at the Battle of Stalingrad, so he was no slouch and had proven himself in revolutionary struggle) was that is was an attempt to divorce the Party thinking from the Stalin "cult" and begin the task of contructing a post-war world socialism. Contrary to popular belief, Stalin, as commissar of nationalities (a job nobody else wanted) revived a lot of regional culture and language that the Tsars had subjugated.

    Anyway, to keep the international offensive going, and to get out of the "Well, what would Stalin say?" I think Kruschev blew the whistle on the Pre-WWII purge trials. My Position, anyway.

    The problem with post-Stalin USSR was that there was NO announced Communist International, and so where could Communists discuss the next steps in the international socialist movement? They chose the forum of "Cominform" which was an information service, not equipped to deal with socialist revolutionary offensive but more for a trade and information exchange. This is the forum where the Sino-Soviet split happened.

    None of this was a reason for abandoning the support of existing soviet republlics, like USSR and China, which was a condition for admission to Comintern, and in spite of the absence of Comintern, Castro pointed out in his 1973 "Speech to the 4th Conference of Non-Aligned Nations" that the Sino-Soviet split was unprinicpled, and that calling USSR "imperialist" was misplaced. The USSR did not do the things an imperializing country does, but DID invest expertise and manpower in many international projects like the Aswan Dam.

    Thanks for the query.
     
  9. NedimNapoleon

    NedimNapoleon Weird Little Human

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    6,022
    Location:
    Bosnia
    Can someone explain the Stalinist method of....."You, random ethnic group, make me a railroad 100 km's north of you, and stay there."

    Why was relocation so crucial in his policies, I also noticed it was mostly done with the Volga Germans, Turkic people of Kazakhstan, and the other stans (Uzbek, Taji, Turkmen, Kyrgyz)?
     
  10. ace99

    ace99 Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    3,455
    Why do the Socialist Party, Socialist Workers, Left Front of Something Something etc... keep trying to run a Presidential candidates? It's a waste of time, waste of money and they don't even have complete ballot access. They would be far better served by building local level organizations in the city and state levels, things like alderman positions, assembly even school board.

    And while we're on the topic why are there half a dozen tiny left parties in the US? You couldn't fill a phone booth with all of them. Fragmentation is a luxury you can hardly afford.

    The 6,000 people that voted for Socialist Workers Presidential candidate, probably some (many?) as a lark, isn't going to help.
     
  11. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    9,891
    I don't recall anything about peoples of Central Asia being deported. There were, however, peoples deported to Central Asia, like the Koreans.
     
  12. NedimNapoleon

    NedimNapoleon Weird Little Human

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    6,022
    Location:
    Bosnia
    I've read about inward deportation, to other parts of the Stans, where labor was necessary. But I also recall the deportation of Chechens, and other groups from the Caucasus to the the Stans. Nomadic Kazakhs got deported to China, Mongolia and Turkey, they got removed from the Soviet Union.
     
  13. ace99

    ace99 Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    3,455
    And that's how 50,000 Koreans ended up in Kazakhstan.
     
  14. Takhisis

    Takhisis brown-haired beauty

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    48,315
    Location:
    up yours!
    Cheezy, you said that it was going to be called 'A New Hope'!
    To keep people in thrall, uproot them and destroy their national identity, anythign that stands otu against the vision of a centralised state.
     
  15. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    9,891
    Stalin's deportation of ethnicities was based primarily on paranoia and the principle of collective guilt. The Koreans were regarded as potential traitors in a war with Japan, the Volga Germans - with Nazi Germany. Some Chechens and Crimean Tatars actually allied with the invading Nazis, which was the reason given for the deportations.
     
  16. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2006
    Messages:
    16,100
    Location:
    In orbit
    Nice title, Cheez. ;)
     
  17. Cheezy the Wiz

    Cheezy the Wiz Socialist In A Hurry

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    25,238
    Location:
    Freedonia
    I tried to remember what the other title we came up with was, but I forgot!
     
  18. ReindeerThistle

    ReindeerThistle Zimmerwald Left

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    3,048
    Location:
    Brooklyn, USA.
    What about "Salvation,". Like Terminator, or Resurrection, like Alien?
     
  19. west india man

    west india man Immortal

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Messages:
    9,154
    Location:
    Brazil
    I'm a fan of Trot myself, although I've been meaning to read more about him for a while.
     
  20. downtown

    downtown Crafternoon Delight

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2004
    Messages:
    19,541
    Location:
    Chicago
    Forgive me Reds, if I might take a crack at this. I'd be interested if you think my hunches are on or off base. I suspect this, and the continued failure by even minor party standards of Communist political efforts in the US comes from:

    1) A lack of organizational and political talent. The fragmentation of "New Left" type groups in the US is not a new development, and there doesn't seem to be a consensus on how to approach China, social issues, or organized labor. The kinds of younger Americans who might be interested in far-left political activity have plenty of other groups to chose from, and the types that could provide legitimate political advice, or organizing, would flock to the Greens, or somewhere else. Cheezy is legitimately the only American over the age of 18 that I have ever met, or even really READ about, that unabashedly calls himself a communist.

    2) The failure to preach their message outside of a small demographic group. I believe that the majority of American communist voters tend to be whites with access to a university education, just like members in urban green parties, OWS-types, etc. The *actual poor and underclass* has been in lockstep with Democrats for decades, and nobody, not even the better financed greens, has been able to dislodge them.

    3) The failure of a coherent way to articulate what a "communist" administration would do for local issues. What does a Communist school board member do, practically speaking, when his other 5 peers are mainstream capitalist leaders? Does a Communist city council member try to nationalize various commercial zoning areas? It would seem that many in the party figured the only practical way to preach that message is to do it nationally, which they can't do without money, leadership, or organizational talent.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page