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Ask Me Anything

Discussion in 'Strategy Section' started by Funak, Apr 9, 2016.

  1. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    I really don't like writing long complicated guides, and I really don't see the use for them. To make a guide that properly guides you through a game you're going to need multiple pages of information explaining pretty much every situation you can run into, and no one is ever going to bother reading that. That being said I might write one eventually, when a writing mode strikes me and I feel the need to unload.


    All that being said, I felt like I could serve the community by answering short questions, preferably ones related to CPP strategy (as this is not an offtopic subforum), so here we go:

    Ask Me Anything
     
  2. Strigvir

    Strigvir Emperor

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    How does military score get calculated? Is it just the number of units?
     
  3. skepticon

    skepticon Chieftain

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    To add to this - are terrain, fort, citadel, and fortification modifiers included in the calculation? My experience gives me a hunch that they are, but I've not tried to test it.
     
  4. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    This is technically a mechanics question, not a strategy question.

    From my experience I would say that it is the combat-strength of your army. Which is why, at least in vanilla, ranged units provides close to nothing towards your military score.
    If this is correct the interesting factors would be number of units and the combat-strength of the units.

    I don't think terrain, forts, number of cities, production capacity is counted in even if they are extremely relevant for actual military power.

    I don't know if (but I don't think so) promotions or gold are counted in.
     
  5. Sesostris

    Sesostris Chieftain

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    I have a question regarding my current game. I'm playing Babylon at level 3 (Warlord), and I'm comfortably dominating my own continent, where there are three other players left that I'm friendly with. I'm pretty tall with six highly-developed cities, and I've just entered the Modern Era.

    On the other continent, Montezuma is dominating hard and is significantly ahead of me score-wise. We're about equal on tech, but he has a huge fleet and army. Monty's kept partly in check by Alexander, who's close to me score-wise.

    I'm pursuing tech and tourism, but I could pretty easily take my whole continent if that would improve my victory chances. However, I don't think I could make a dent in Monty's forces as it is. Basically I have no idea which victory condition to pursue in this situation, or how to go about it best.

    So my specific question is, which victory should I try for?

    A more general question is, do the different victory conditions lend themselves to either tall or wide strategies, or can they be pursued either way?
     
  6. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    You said that you were focusing on tech and tourism, if you think a you can land a tourism victory, then go for it. Otherwise scientific is a nice fallback. You're going to be focusing on tech to keep up your tourism anyways, so there really isn't any harm in it.

    Keep in mind that victory-conditions isn't exactly set it stone, you can severely increase your chances to win a tourism-victory by eliminating a high culture rival/steal wonders/steal great works or by getting a few extra city-state allies and passing some favorable world congress resolutions.

    I'm not saying that focusing on one particular victory-type in CPP is bad by any means, but the game is far more open in that regard compared to vanilla where you pretty much had to decide from the start what to go for.

    First of all, with the way CPP works, you really don't talk about Wide vs Tall anymore, you pretty much always want your cities to grow, no matter how many cities you settle, more population means the ability to work more tiles and more specialists, resulting in more gold, more science, more culture and more more production. The only real drawback of growing your cities is that happiness becomes slightly harder to manage, this however shouldn't really be a problem.

    From my experience getting more cities never actually hurt. Depending on the game-situation it could take a while for them to actually be a boon to your economy instead of a drain but more cities pretty much mean more of everything. The biggest drawback to expanding, either by settling or by conquest is that it tend to create more enemies, which makes staying peaceful a lot harder.

    As for specific victory-condition, in my experience Domination victory is probably the VC where it is most clear that bigger is better. More cities means you can produce more units and it means you can gather more strategic resources. As a byproduct of going for Domination you're probably going to get a bigger empire anyways, either because you need to conquer land to make your way towards the other civ capitals or just because you don't want potential enemies settling cities too close to you.


    For scientific VC, more cities usually means more science, more cities also increases the cost of techs by a bit, but unless you're really overdoing it, or completely neglecting infrastructure in your cities, the science from your new cities are going to more than compensate for that. More cities also means the ability to work more scientists, meaning you'll end up with more great scientist to consume.

    However, it is worth mentioning, that a Wide empire and a Compact empire plays the science game slightly different. If your empire is Compact you're going to benefit a lot more from science from trade-routes or science from academies. Trade-routes and academies are going to provide you with a fairly significant part of your science income if you're playing a smaller more compact empire, while if you're playing really wide the flat science gained from those sources are fairly negligible.


    For Tourism victory, if your empire is bigger than your enemy's he is going to get a boost, both defensively and offensively for tourism towards you. This bonus however is usually not enough to compensate for the sheer amount of extra tourism and culture you can get by expanding but it is probably still worth mentioning.

    Compact Tourism play has a few benefits however, tourism over your enemies means your trade-routes generates extra flat science along with extra growth and extra gold, this is a lot more valuable if you have a low number of cities for reasons already explained earlier.

    It is also worth mentioning that Compact Tourism and Wide Tourism plays slightly different, with Compact putting a lot more value towards wonders, great works and themingbonuses, as they are flat increases. Wide tourism instead are going to earn a whole lot more tourism from historical events, as your total culture-output is a lot bigger, they are also going to trigger more historic events by birthing more great people and also gathering more faith that can be used to buy extra great people.


    Diplomatic victory condition like domination also heavily favors wide game-play. More cities means more paper which in turn means more diplomats. More cities means you're in bigger control of the votes you get from religious authority, it also means you're going to generate more great diplomats, which can be used for even more votes. I'm honestly not sure there is any specific benefit to staying compact if you're going for a diplomatic victory.


    Hope this helps you out.
     
  7. Sesostris

    Sesostris Chieftain

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    Excellent explanation, thanks! :D

    I hadn't realized how much the changes really impacted playstyles, and this clarified a lot for me. :goodjob:
     
  8. mavol6

    mavol6 Chieftain

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    what buildings should i focus first on new founded cities (lets assume they are from settlers, not pioneers). My main interest is production so the city can have a decent infrastructure.

    i usually follow this pattern monument->well/water mill->forge->barracks->arena.

    also is it worth it to settle with the normal settler around the middle ages? or should i wait renaissance for the pioneer? assuming the land is not going to be settled by another player
     
  9. Gokudo01

    Gokudo01 Emperor

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    Good initiative Funak =)
     
  10. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Buildings really depend on my pantheon, if I have a pantheon boosting a specific building (or if I'm playing a civ with an early unique building) I usually start with that building.
    Other than that I usually start with Shrine, because taking every chance possible to get a religion is pretty much always worth it. After shrine my buildorder usually looks kinda similar to you. A full list would be something along these lines:
    Shrine -> Well -> Monument -> Water mill -> Forge -> Arena -> Barracks

    Of course blindly following a build-order is not always the best idea, you kinda have to adapt to the situation, but that's how I do it anyways.



    I pretty much never sit around waiting to unlock pioneers unless I'm seriously ahead on techs, at which point I usually build a a settler or two, research banking and then pay gold to upgrade them, the research-time plus the massive hammer-cost of the Pioneer is a real killer.

    Thank you.
     
  11. ExpiredReign

    ExpiredReign Deity

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    It's interesting to see other peoples ideas on what are their 'goto' playstyles.
    I rarely ever build shrines unless I am absolutely sure I am going to push to make my religion the majority. The upkeep is just not worth it unless you go the 'whole hog' and proselytise like mad.

    Usually I leave the faith generation until another religion arrives in my empire and then I need to settle the religious unease in my cities. Shrines > temples to soothe the masses.
     
  12. skepticon

    skepticon Chieftain

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    I used to skip shrines too, but they were buffed to be +2 faith with no maintenance cost now.
     
  13. ExpiredReign

    ExpiredReign Deity

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    Wow, I missed that, no maintenance! That's a no-brainer then -- build shrines.
     
  14. tompliss

    tompliss Warlord

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    Yeah, I think Shrines have become really powerful, and an obvious early building, especially when going wide because of their lack of gold upkeep.
     
  15. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Come on now, 4 posts in a row not asking questions, try to stay on topic :D
     
  16. Orlanduke

    Orlanduke Chieftain

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    You pick your civ, set up your game, load that nice long entrance narration, and begin the game.

    What are some of the first things you look at to determine "Wow, this is a good start" versus "Wow, this is an uphill battle already"?
     
  17. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    I'm going to assume I'm not playing a terrain specific civ (brazil, Inca, Iroquois and so on).
    First of all I get really sad if I see multiple tundra-tiles within range, that usually indicated that one or possibly two directions are just lead to dead areas where barbarians will continuously spawn and where I probably don't want to settle cities.

    Desert is probably next on the list, Desert isn't anywhere near as annoying as tundra, because most deserts are rather small and usually have at least some rivers flowing through them creating locations where I can settle.

    Third, and this should probably be higher on the list, but I really don't like tundra, if I'm running a water-based map, continents, small contents, tiny islands, fractal, archipelago and so on and I don't start coastal, or anywhere near the coast. That's usually a sign I should just consider restarting.

    Fourth, rivers makes everything a lot easier, I usually don't see rivers as make it or break it necessities, but they can make a mediocre starting-location into a great one.

    Fifth, checking the nearby luxuries, the one luxury with two copies near my starting-location is in most cases going to exist in plenty, and I'm pretty much guaranteed a monopoly on it. Luxuries with good yields, like Spice, Sugar, Salt, Copper, Citrus, Olives among others and luxuries with good monopoly-bonuses raises the value of the location by a lot.


    That being said I pretty much play all my starts unless the civ I'm playing requires a specific terrain to actually work, or if there is just too much tundra.
     
  18. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Honestly, if you focus on culture you're going to be able to pick up some wonders even on higher difficulties. I wouldn't advice doing it however, as it is usually not worth the risk. I get some ancient era wonders from time to time on Immortal, mostly wonders that the AI 'forgot' to build, I guess sometimes they just don't pick that techpath or they don't bother building them, meaning I can pick them up either with my first great engineer or just by hardbuilding them mid classical era.


    As a more general advice I'll tell you what I tell everyone: If you're having trouble with a difficulty, lower it, keep bashing your head into immortal and deity because you think you 'should be able to do it' isn't really constructive, sure you'll probably learn something eventually, but chances are you'll be bored and frustrated out of your mind before that.

    If however, you don't have any problems beating a difficulty, but you're still struggling with the early-game stuff like when and where to expand, how much to expand, when to go for wonders or which wonders to go for, the only advice I can really give you is to keep playing. You might not see it, but you automatically start cutting corners and making your play smoother as you get more experience with the mechanics. Experiment with things, don't just stick with something because that's how it was done in vanilla, a lot of things have changed, and what was optimal in vanilla probably isn't optimal anymore, or at the very least there are other just as valid ways of handling it.



    Sorry if this wasn't the answer you were looking for.
     
  19. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Not entirely true - there's a lot of flexibility early-game, and it is much easier to catch-up in CBP than vanilla (thanks to spy bonuses and the World Congress). Something to note about all of these strategies is that the CBP is designed to support innumerable playstyles and opening builds.

    AI bonuses are lower in the CBP than vanilla (except Deity, which is slightly higher). The AI is simply better at everything, and that's something that often takes players off-guard.

    G
     
  20. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I'm not sure that your definitions of flexibility/variety are fair evaluations of what the early game (i.e. turns 0-100) are capable of being. Flexibility implies a fluidity of options (which vanilla civ lacks - 4 cities + tradition forever), which in turn results in a variety of opening strategies and outcomes.

    G
     

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