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Asparusthesaiyan's top ten science civs in Gathering Storm (Post Patch) (Revised)

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by AsparustheSaiyan, Apr 19, 2019.

  1. AsparustheSaiyan

    AsparustheSaiyan Chieftain

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    Hello everyone! So I got inspired by u/seacow1g and his posts back in rise and fall where he made top ten lists for each of the victory types. So I thought I would have a go myself but there are a couple of things you should all know...

    I have only played the game to king difficulty, now this may be an issue for some and maybe not for others but I thought it was only fair to let you all know before we continue. I have watched deity plays on YouTube so I do believe have a good idea of what is good and what isn't. Also, these are my opinions. So everything below is purely subjective.

    These are just brief overviews, if you feel I missed something then feel free to let me know!

    This is a revised list so please bear that in mind when going through it.

    With that being said, let's begin!

    1) Korea

    Ok, I don't think anyone is thinking of arguing with me on this one... They have a 50% off campus with AT LEAST +4 adjacency.

    A hills start bias so production is never an issue.

    Governor's give extra science. 3% in fact. This doesn't sound like a whole lot but when your science keeps increasing this racks up really fast!

    farms give extra food when adjacent to Seowon's and mines give extra science next to Seowon's. Meaning your production actually gives you science and your cities can grow taller which means... Yep, you guessed it, more science.

    Essentially, everything Korea does is aimed at getting more science than anyone else and because of that they are easily the best science in the game.

    2) Australia

    Much like Korea, Australia can get pretty damn good adjacency on their Campus'. They just do it in a different way.

    They get extra adjacency for their Campus' when they are placed on tiles with breathtaking appeal. Because of this, it is not uncommon to see Australian Campus' at +6 maybe even +7 adjacency.

    After liberating a city or being DOW'd you get 100% for 10 turns. If you get this, it is rediculous what you can do with it. Especially around when space ship projects are around because I guarantee you, someone, either an AI city state or city can be liberated by then. Or you will be close to winning so they gang up on you anyways. And with emergencies in the game now getting DOW'd isn't that difficult now.

    Extra housing from cities on coastal tiles and the outback station means Australian cities get taller which means once again, even more science.

    These bonus' to me are just too substantial to ignore and place Australia at number 2 for me.

    3) Sumeria

    Right then, Sumeria is one of those civs that are famous for their more militaristic approach to winning games, and for science that is no different.

    War carts are the best UU in the game. Get a few of these out, conquer a lot of your neighbours cities and city states, then sit back and let your massive number of cities do the rest of the work for you once War Carts become obsolete. War Carts also get tribal villages from clearing barb camps so you have a good chance at getting some early Eurekas there.

    Ziggurats provide a very early source of science and can literally be built anywhere. Which means in combination with war carts and taking over your earliest neighbours. You can get a very early head start on science before you even get Campus'.

    I find that in civ 6 the earlier you can get bonus' the better off you will be. It is for these reasons that Sumeria take the number 3 spot.

    4) Arabia

    Arabia is a bit of an oddball in civ 6. The thing is, normally certain victory conditions can help each other. Science helps domination and vice versa. Faith helps culture etc etc. With Arabia, it's science and faith. A strange combination, but it surprisingly works.

    A good source of faith AND science for Arabia comes from their Madrasa's which is their replacement for the university, provides +5 science instead of +4 and is unlocked earlier at Theology in the civics tree. Meaning Arabia can get a stronger science advantage quicker than other civs and start generating more great scientists too.

    Completing a unique holy site building from your religion provides an extra 10% science in the city it was built which coupled with the science from Madrasa's can start adding up.

    They also get +1 science from each foreign city converted to their religion. This doesn't seem like much put if you plan on using your religion to influence your science output you can get a decent amount of science from this and at the end of the day, extra science, no matter how small, never stops being important.

    One thing worth mentioning is that they are guaranteed the last religion. Allowing you a little freedom to pursue generating science first. On the other hand, a strong faith generation means you can purchase great scientists so it may be worth more to get a religion sooner rather than later.

    Overall Arabia gets some great bonus' to science. If their UU wasn't hit so hard in Gathering storm I feel they would have been better but it's hard to deny that Arabia is easily a top 5 science civ. And I placed them here this time at number 4.

    5) Scotland

    Scotland was a civ I never really thought much off until I tried them. Essentially what they do is turn your civs happiness into science and production generation. Both of which are important for science victories.

    If you can get your cities happy they get +1 great scientist point in Campus' and +1 great engineer point in industrial zones. If your cities are ecstatic, they go to +2. This pretty much means Scotland has a great chance of getting great scientists throughout the course of the game. (Ha! Golf puns.)

    +5% science in happy cities and +10% in ecstatic cities is a welcome boost. It reminds me of Arabia's boost with the unique religious holy building only with Scotland it's based on ammenities and happiness which are a little more easy to manipulate by outside sources. (War, trading luxuries etc etc)

    +100% production for 10 turns after declaring a war of liberation can be tricky since it's reliant on events happening outside of your control. However, if you can activate it, then just like Australia's similar ability that production boost can propel you towards space!

    Remember when I said happiness was a big part of Scotland's science generation? Well say hello to Golf Courses! They provide extra ammenities so will help keep your empire ecstatic with you. Keeping your science output going.

    Scotland has some good boosts to science. I'm not the biggest fan of so much of it being tied to how happy your cities are because if you want to go to war you could end up compromising that. However, what Scotland does have is very good and if your looking for a purely peaceful science game Scotland might be the civ for you. The have moved up to number 5 from my previous list simply due to the fact I think I'm undervaluing the percentage based increase they get. Whilst small early game as you progress through the eras that increase will get bigger and bigger and bigger. Creating a snowball effect for Scotland.


    6) The Netherlands

    The Netherlands are a new entry on this list after having several people comment to me about their effectiveness for science wins. All I'm going to say is I should have had them on my last list.

    So you know what's good for science wins? Science AND production. With Grote Rivieren the Dutch rarely have any issues getting either good Campus' or good industrial zones thanks to this ability. All that is required is these districts to be placed on a river to get+2 adjacency with the potential of more if there are woods, rainforest or mountains nearby.

    Thanks to the recent patch climate change has slowed down to a pace that The Netherlands can manage, and even if their districts on rivers are at risk they receive 50% off production towards flood barriers and dams. So flooding for the most part can be avoided.

    Polders, despite the specific location requirement is a very good UI. It's a very good source of gold, food and housing which will help the Netherlands cities grow taller, but also give them a fantastic economy to purchase whatever they need. Whether that be military or infrastructure (such as buildings for their Campus') and on top of that they also get even more food and production for each adjacenct polder. These bonus' can stack up pretty damn well, especially with the production cost of space projects.

    Essentially, right from the start of the game The Netherlands are in a good position to start a science game, with Grote Rivieren in play and with polders providing much needed gold and production I feel the Netherlands deserve the number 6 slot on this list.

    7) Germany

    Production. Germany laughs at every other civs measley production.

    Germany doesn't get any straight up bonus' to science. However with the use of Hansa's and trade routes when paired with commercial hubs, Germany can effectively make productive cities in places other civs can't. More cities are then able to build spaceports and complete space projects.

    An extra district slot for every city ensures Germany will get cities up and running a lot faster, especially with Hanza's. Highly underrated in my opinion and makes Germany a diversity powerhouse.

    Bonus' against city states mean that Germany can potentially get cities faster. More cities = more population = more science.

    Germany's production bonus' are simply too monumental to ignore. There have been several posts on the subreddit showing this and due to how quickly and efficiently they can build everything they need for a science win they take the number 7 slot. Now they have dropped 4 places since my last list. The reason for this is because despite how important production is to a science victory, actually generating science is still way more important and I think I undervalued that fact the first time I made the list. Nonetheless, no-one can tell me Germany isn't a production god and that makes science victories a lot easier for them, so they take number 7 on this new list.

    8) Inca

    Inca have been a lot of people's favourite civ as of late, especially when it comes to science wins and it's not hard to see why.

    A mountain start bias ensures that no matter what you can get some decent adjacencies for campus'.

    With terrace farms and their bonus' to food and production from them the Inca can grow VERY tall cities. I remember a post from a while ago where someone got an Inca city to over 60+ pop. Imagine that with rationalism! Combine this with Pingala early on and rationalism later on and you will have a science monster on your hands. The extra production helps with space projects too.

    The fact they can workountain tiles is very advantageous for them since it makes settling them easier.

    The Inca are a very unique civ and hopefully I've justified why I placed them in number 8.

    9) Japan

    Be prepared. Japan are going to be in a lot of these lists.

    Though that's not hard to see why. They are easily one of the most versatile civs in the game. But what provides their science? Adjacency.

    Basically thanks to Meiji restoration you can rack up some insane adjacencies later in the game from districts. Remember, government plazas and city centers count as districts too. The downside of Japan's ability to gain adjacency on their Campus' compared to other civs higher on the list is that it is going to take some time to build these districts together. So you won't get the maximum science yield you can get until maybe medieval era onwards. Not to mention you will need to pack your cities close together to get the most out of this. However, it is insanely powerful if done right and is damn impressive to look at too.

    Samurai aid with the domination aspect of science wins. Since they fight as if at full health they are a force to be reckoned with, allowing you to take cities and as I always say. More cities = more science. Or they could be the perfect defensive unit.

    Basically Japan acts like a jack of all trades, master of whatever they want to be kind of civ to me, they have a very specific gimmick/niche but when it works it really works. If they gear towards science they can do very well and that's why they are number 9 for me.

    10) Aztecs

    The last and newest entry on the list. A few people have mentioned the Aztecs too and after reviewing the civs for this list I can see why.

    Let's start with the obvious. Being able to use builder charges to rush districts is amazing. Especially since the costs of districts increase as the eras progress. For any other civ, this is a problem but for the Aztecs? It never will be. They will build more campus' and spaceports quicker than any other civ in the game. Pair this with the ancestral hall and any new city you found gets a builder. You can then use this builder to construct a campus in your new city almost immediately.

    The eagle warrior is incredibly strong for what it is, which is basically a warrior replacement on steroids. They get even stronger from the luxuries you improve (more on that in a moment) which makes the eagle warrior a very good early spammable unit to wage war with and grab an extra couple of cities. On top of that, any enemy civ unit they defeat has a chance to be "converted" into a builder, which with how important builders are to the Aztecs is great if it works.

    So I mentioned luxuries and with the Aztecs and they actually get an extra 2 ammenities with each luxury. What this means is that a luxury will affect 6 cities instead of the usual 4. This encourages you to go wider which will always help your science wins. More wide= more campus'=more science.


    Ok! That's the list this time around. This will be the last time I revise the science list since I want to move on to domination next. Hopefully this revised list. Let me know what you all think!

    Special mention to these civs who are also great for science wins: Nubia, China, Phoenicia
     
  2. Weraptor

    Weraptor Chieftain

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    Nice list. Macedon should be at least number 10, imo. Their abusive science generation via policy-boosted naval units in cities with Basilikoi Paides can be pretty nutty.
     
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  3. AsparustheSaiyan

    AsparustheSaiyan Chieftain

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    They were actually in my previous list, I ended up taking them out because my conscience was telling me that their way to a science win is much better for domination. After all, if your going to build a giant freaking army why not use it!? They are a very strong science civ though.
     
  4. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Pffft... No Pericles in the list. That guy rocks.
    Do you know Korea is not that good? Certainly not number1

    Thermal vents have changed a lot and it’s not like they get other adjacencies.
     
  5. criZp

    criZp Warlord

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    great argument
     
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  6. ezzlar

    ezzlar Chieftain

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    Japan far too low on the list. When clustering districts combined with the science cards they are huge on beakers.
     
  7. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Not sure how you are meaning that. There is more than the fact they cannot wear thermals.
    Science is about conquest and culture and wonders also.
    There are civs out there that can seriously push culture like Peri but there are early war types, early religious ones bound to get harvest. Then there is China... 10% of eurekas and inspirations... that’s 2 golden age abilities combines with wonders and 8 charge builders.
    Japan is OK, not blinding top 10 IMO.
     
  8. greenOak

    greenOak Chieftain

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    There's something to be said that Korea is probably the easiest civ to achieve SV with. It wouldn't surprise me if other civs could achieve quicker victory times than Korea, but there's no other civ that you can just autopilot to SV like Korea.
     
  9. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    More than Australia?
    Actually it is AT MOST +4 adjacency

    I just think they are overrated, look good on an ipad but playing has its issues
     
  10. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Warlord

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    I really admire your fanaticism and dedication to writing up your impressions, but I don't believe that you have yet played all of the civs enough times, at different levels, and on different maps, for your ratings to have much validity. As impressions they are fine, and you are getting great feedback from very good experienced players. Try out their suggestions at higher levels on different maps for a while. :)
     
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  11. AsparustheSaiyan

    AsparustheSaiyan Chieftain

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    You know what dude? I think you are right. I'll probably put this project on hold for a little while till I've got higher difficulties and become more experienced. Thanks!
     
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  12. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Give China a go
     
  13. AsparustheSaiyan

    AsparustheSaiyan Chieftain

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    I actually have and they are really good now in Gathering storm!
     
  14. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Warlord

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    By all means, keep notes of your progress and impressions, but avoid too much fine detail because those details could change after the next tweak/patch.
    After you play the "good" civs (e.g. China, Rome, Australia, Maori and Inca), try some of the very difficult ones, like Georgia or Norway, or the outlandish ones, like England led by Victoria.

    And above all have fun!
     
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  15. GenyaArikado

    GenyaArikado Judge of Love

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    do you know who is not good at all? Victoria
     
  16. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Because you put Victoria outside the question mark I will agree with you to a large degree. A perfect map will allow free enquiry which can be quite strong but does not survive long enough to be of great use but it is something. Monumentality is just such a strong dedication.
    Civs without culture or science additions who do mot have early military bonuses are all fairly vanilla for an SV. That does not mean they cannot do well, they just cannot excel.
     

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