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Assuming HC is the best leader in the game, who is #2, and why?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Gwynnja, Jan 3, 2014.

?

next best

  1. Hatty

    2.8%
  2. Willem

    4.2%
  3. Liz

    5.6%
  4. Gandhi

    12.7%
  5. Hannibal

    4.2%
  6. DeGaulle

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Mansa

    5.6%
  8. Darius

    21.1%
  9. Ramesses

    14.1%
  10. Napoleon

    1.4%
  11. Louis

    4.2%
  12. Pericles

    2.8%
  13. Pacal

    2.8%
  14. Mehmed

    1.4%
  15. Sulieman

    1.4%
  16. Sury

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  17. Gilgamesh

    4.2%
  18. Qin

    1.4%
  19. Shaka

    1.4%
  20. Lincoln

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  21. Washington

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  22. FDR

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  23. Bismarck

    1.4%
  24. Fred

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  25. someone else

    7.0%
  1. Gwynnja

    Gwynnja Deity

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    For the sake of comparison, assume deity, nhne, land map, normal size/speed, restricted leaders. If you don't think HC is #1, feel free to say why.
     
  2. Strickl3r

    Strickl3r Prince

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    Difficult decision: Ram_asses maybe, especially if you include cheesy religious victorys.
    Ghandy, Mansa, Elizabeth are close.
    This would be my top 5 probably with Egypt as 2nd place and HC as a clear Number 1. Darius could be near the 2nd best leader also.
     
  3. Timo33

    Timo33 Chieftain

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    Thats a think im confused about. Why does everyone love HC so much?
     
  4. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    It's not about "love" but rather simple fact which pretty much boils down to the power of the Quecha on higher levels. It's been beyond proven how powerful the Incans are because of the Q, not to mention his excellent traits and UB. With that said, I don't care much for that playstyle and I think many others don't care for it either. There's a reason Incans are banned from HOF competitions.

    My top 5:

    Pacal
    Egypts ( I really rate Hatty and Ram about the same)
    Mehmed
    De Gaulle
    Isabella
     
  5. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
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    Quechua are super OP and cheesy, Fin + Ind is arguably the strongest trait combo in the game, the terrace is an awesome UB, and his starting techs aren't bad since he has the most important one.
     
  6. robbyextreme

    robbyextreme Warlord

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    I play K-MOD, immortal/large big_and_small map, no huts, random events. I've decided my tier list a while ago.

    1. Elizabeth.
    2. William.
    3. Asoka

    the rest of them are pretty much any financial leader in whatever order. But probably Hannibal as a 4th is good. The trait combo is great to have fat productive cities quickly.

    Quecahes are easily a top 5 civ to. But on K-MOD they require 20 hammers. So producing them every 1 turn in multiple cities isn't possible.
     
  7. shakabrade

    shakabrade Praise Vivec!

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    Gandhi. Always useful and probably the best UU and wonderful traits.
     
  8. Timo33

    Timo33 Chieftain

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    I'm not a high level player myself, so obviously i wasn't disagreeing.
    I'm just confused because of the Ind trait especially; in Diety you go less for wonders than in lower levels (cseanny recently wrote something about it).
    HC is really powerful but i've never had th impression of "this game feels so easy with this leader".

    But then again, i'm not disagreeing at all :p im just too inexperienced i guess.

    Back to topic: I can't say which leader is best, and im not even a diety player anyway. However, my preference goes, in order, to:
    1) Mehmed
    2) Mansa
    3) Hatchepsout
    4) Darius
    5) Louis XIV
     
  9. Strickl3r

    Strickl3r Prince

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    Aug 28, 2012
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    I would like to start another raging discussion how Mehmet is not all that great. At least not top 10 :D

    Spoiler :
    just kidding,... that i would start the discussion i mean
     
  10. CivNoobie

    CivNoobie King

    Joined:
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    never go wrong with charlemagne
     
  11. Timo33

    Timo33 Chieftain

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    Yeah, he doesn't seem like a serious pick for the best leader after HC, however everytime i played him i did a way better job than with other leaders. Can't explain why
     
  12. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Same answer as every time: depends on map.

    Mansa Musa is usually the "safe" option because Skirmishers let you survive more easily the first 100 turns.

    Next.
     
  13. Gwynnja

    Gwynnja Deity

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    He's pretty well rounded. I'm not the biggest Organized fan, but there are players better than me that love it. I love Expansive (although there are players better than me that don't :shrug: ) Hamman is great. Starting techs are great. Loads of cheap buildings. I might not put Meh in my top 10, but if not, he's on the cusp.
     
  14. Windsor

    Windsor Flawless

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    Location:
    Norway
    Ramesses = Apostolic Palace = Win
     
  15. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    What less experienced players fail to see about the IND trait on higher levels is the power of fail gold. It's not about completing the wonders, but rather putting hammers into Wonders so you get nice chunks of gold when AIs build them. Not to mention multi-building National Wonders for fail gold. Even so, IND does give you a good chance at some of the wonders you do want to beat the AI too like TGL.

    Not sure what cseanny wrote, he's a good player, but I'm sure he knows the value of fail gold. Him making a statement that going for wonders on Deity is not advisable makes sense, but that logic does not preclude fail gold.

    Fail gold is one of the main tricks on winning at higher levels, and IND does it so much better due to the hammer to gold conversion.
     
  16. Timo33

    Timo33 Chieftain

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    @Lymond

    That makes sense, thanks for the explanation. I didnt take fail gold into consideration; i know it's powerful, i just didnt think it was enough to make Ind so popular at higher level. Thanks for clearing it up.

    Also, about my referrence to cseanny: he wrote something like "the only wonders i would consider targetting are MoM/TGL/TM". Thus I said that in Diety you aim to build wonders less than in lower levels. I was't talking about fail gold there, and didn"t mean to imply that cseanny never goes for it. I apologize if my post made you think something like that, i know how good cseanny is at the game
     
  17. cseanny

    cseanny Emperor

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    I vote old Qin who was IND/FIN (IMO best trait pairing possible). Additionally, he has my absolute favorite starting techs of all time; AGR/MIN. So many potential openings to have fun with, not to mention Cho's.

    For current stuff I vote Darius followed by Rammy. Both have great trait/tech combos with 2 of the deadliest UUs. Addressing Timo and Lymond, yes, I love me some fail gold.
     
  18. Rainy Days

    Rainy Days Chieftain

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    Anything with a good early UU could be up there. I'm a bit surprised Gandhi gets votes, he doesn't have anything to deal with tough situations. If you get boxed in or start next to warmongers the game's pretty much over. Oh yeah... and mysticism. :/

    I'm a Gilgamesh fanboy. Good starting techs, good UU & good UB. Can choke with protective archers, can Vulture rush, can rex on maps with a lot of space.. he's pretty beastly.
     
  19. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Sorry, but this is a bit illogical especially considering that Gandhi has arguably the best (and earliest) UU in the game, less Q's. "Early UU" does not necessarily get you out of tough situations any more than standard UUs. Granted some of them are good for rushes or barb defense. However, good players do just as fine without them. Gandhi has great traits and UU and is actually a very good warmonger, as is Asoka.

    Gandhi is not in my personal Top 5, but he would be #6. Ofc, we are talking about human player here, but it is interesting to note that Gandhi is twice winner of the Deity AI tournament.
     
  20. fyermind

    fyermind Chieftain

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    There is a lot to be said for darius. He has the economic power to expand, starts with animal husbandry within easy reach and can grab archery fast if there aren't horses. His economic power and UU allows him to rush/choke 2 AIs and still win lib. That is saying something.

    Still, without horses, he's not so hot, and he is a long shot from bronze working, so maybe not the second best.

    I'm a huge fan of bulb rushing engineering (or at least keeping the option open) so Suleiman is one of my favorites.

    Willem's traits are amazing, but he lacks UU or UB of consequence. (Dikes are great, but too little too late)

    Augustus and Julius are boss.

    So top 5 in order:
    Darius
    Suleiman
    Willem Van Orange
    Augusts
    Julius
     

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