Assyria, Austria, and Israel

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And when I said I failed .... I meant that both ways --- maybe just talk about why a civ should be in instead of why it shouldn't.
 
Compared to the other civilizations in the region, they were a minor player. Egypt, Persia, Babylon, Rome and Greece were the major players in that region at the time and Israel existed between them, conquering only other minor players in between being repeatedly conquered itself.

There was no point at which it was a "major player", posing any form of threat or indeed significant cultural influence over anyone other than minor groups in the region.

And where are any of those major powers you just named today? The Military of Israel today could crush any of them with no problem. Civ isn't just about ancient history, it's about the big picture. Israel has outlasted them all, and is by far the biggest force of the middle east today.
 
And where are any of those major powers you just named today? The Military of Israel today could crush any of them with no problem. Civ isn't just about ancient history, it's about the big picture. Israel has outlasted them all, and is by far the biggest force of the middle east today.

Being artificially recreated in a dreadful example of western arrogance and racism to become nothing but an epicentre of instability and human rights violations is not the hallmark of an influential civilization.

Existing in the modern day is not what makes a civilization influential. It's having a significant influence on world history. The clue is in the words.
 
Being artificially recreated in a dreadful example of western arrogance and racism to become nothing but an epicentre of instability and human rights violations is not the hallmark of an influential civilization.

Existing in the modern day is not what makes a civilization influential. It's having a significant influence on world history. The clue is in the words.

Western Arrogance and Racism? What?

You do know that the Palestinian Muslims took that land from the Byzantines in 600 AD, before then it was conquered from Israel by Rome and Pompey

If anything the order of succession should be Jews, Christians, and then Muslims in Palestine.

The Jews have no nation! The Palestinians have Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and all the other Muslim nations to go to. Israel was set up to be a safe haven for the Jewish people after the Holocaust and was chosen in the Jewish homeland.

Tell me where the racism comes from lmfao.


Israel has had just as much influence on the real world as Rome and Greece... Go to Europe and go look at a church... go read the US Constitution based on Judeo-Christian values... Go to Ethopia, Mecca, Constantinople, Rome, etc. See all the churches and monuments built to the Jewish God throughout the world. The Bible is the #1 Selling and influential book all the time.

Geez you guys are so dumb and you are speaking out of your butt. I still think it is more about anti-semitism and anti-religion that you guys lash out at Israel being in Civ and not for any logical reasons. You are trying as hard as you can to try to make a logical argument to hide your own hatred of the Jews and it sounds bad. Read what you are writing and how radical and far-out there it sounds.

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And where are any of those major powers you just named today? The Military of Israel today could crush any of them with no problem. Civ isn't just about ancient history, it's about the big picture. Israel has outlasted them all, and is by far the biggest force of the middle east today.

Thank you... someone logical. I wrote this earlier.
 
Western Arrogance and Racism? What?

You do know that the Palestinian Muslims took that land from the Byzantines in 600 AD, before then it was conquered from Israel by Rome and Pompey

If anything the order of succession should be Jews, Christians, and then Muslims in Palestine.

The Jews have no nation! The Palestinians have Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and all the other Muslim nations to go to. Israel was set up to be a safe haven for the Jewish people after the Holocaust and was chosen in the Jewish homeland.

Tell me where the racism comes from lmfao.


Israel has had just as much influence on the real world as Rome and Greece... Go to Europe and go look at a church... go read the US Constitution based on Judeo-Christian values... Go to Ethopia, Mecca, Constantinople, Rome, etc. See all the churches and monuments built to the Jewish God throughout the world. The Bible is the #1 Selling and influential book all the time.

Geez you guys are so dumb and you are speaking out of your butt. I still think it is more about anti-semitism and anti-religion that you guys lash out at Israel being in Civ and not for any logical reasons. You are trying as hard as you can to try to make a logical argument to hide your own hatred of the Jews and it sounds bad. Read what you are writing and how radical and far-out there it sounds.

Since when has it been necessary for religous groups to have their own nation?
 
You do know that the Palestinian Muslims took that land from the Byzantines in 600 AD, before then it was conquered from Israel by Rome and Pompey

And before that it was conquered by the Israelites and so on. Does the fact that a people ruled an area for a period of about 500 years 2500 years ago give them any claim on it now? Does it give them the rights to do the atrocities that are committed against the people that have lived there for generations? The right to violate UN tracts again and again?

The Jews have no nation! The Palestinians have Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and all the other Muslim nations to go to. Israel was set up to be a safe haven for the Jewish people after the Holocaust and was chosen in the Jewish homeland.
[/QUOTE]

So, you are advocating separating people by ethnicity? As in apartheid? I am this far from breaking into Godwin's law- territory here...

What you are basically saying is that if the UN decided that the Native Americans wanted their land back, they have a right to it and all the Americans of European decent can go to Europe and the ones of African Decent can go to Africa. Would you be OK with that?

The problem isn't anti- semittism, it is raging sionists, that believe the writings in the Bible gives a people the right to do pretty much anything they please.
 
Really, religion needs to be removed from existence...At least, it shouldn't be something so large and big as it is now.

So, should I run and hide now? But, I guess everyone is allowed to state his or her opinion here, so I should be pretty safe...At least you don't know where I live. :p
 
Western Arrogance and Racism? What?

You do know that the Palestinian Muslims took that land from the Byzantines in 600 AD, before then it was conquered from Israel by Rome and Pompey

If anything the order of succession should be Jews, Christians, and then Muslims in Palestine.

The Jews have no nation! The Palestinians have Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and all the other Muslim nations to go to. Israel was set up to be a safe haven for the Jewish people after the Holocaust and was chosen in the Jewish homeland.

Tell me where the racism comes from lmfao.

Wow, you really don't get it do you?

Israel was inhabited for over 1000 years by other people and the west decided that A) it was there place to decide who lives where and B) that the people currently living there were "just Arabs" and nobody cares about them.

Do you think they would have uprooted a white nation to make room for Israel?

There is absolutely no justification for uprooting an entire nation of people - let alone because you think one race is more important than another. It's absolutely disgusting.

There is no such thing as "succession" when it comes to territory. Nobody has any rights over that territory any more than a "Celtic nation" has the right to kick every Anglo-Saxon out of England and claim it as their own.

Israel has had just as much influence on the real world as Rome and Greece... Go to Europe and go look at a church... go read the US Constitution based on Judeo-Christian values... Go to Ethopia, Mecca, Constantinople, Rome, etc. See all the churches and monuments built to the Jewish God throughout the world. The Bible is the #1 Selling and influential book all the time.

Geez you guys are so dumb and you are speaking out of your butt. I still think it is more about anti-semitism and anti-religion that you guys lash out at Israel being in Civ and not for any logical reasons.

If you are unable to get it through your head that there is a difference between the impact of a nation that happened to be lucky enough to be the birth place of a successful religion and the impact of the religion then you need to try harder.

This is civilization not "mythology wars" and the only relevant thing Israel has done as a civilization is be repeatedly conquered. That is the opposite of a powerful state.

The Jewish religion is not Israel. Israel is a minor ancient civilization and a disastrous and cruel modern day one. Jews are worthy of the rights given to any other religion - the right to worship how ever they wish and live their lives to the fullest in the nation in which they reside.

There is no fantasy land in which they have the right to evict thousands of people who have been peacefully living there for thousands of years.

No matter what the arrogance of the west says, they do not have that right. Nobody does.

You are trying as hard as you can to try to make a logical argument to hide your own hatred of the Jews and it sounds bad. Read what you are writing and how radical and far-out there it sounds.

Yeah, "radical". Hey, lets go slaughter a bunch of women and children with attack helicopters because they're trying to live in the land their ancestors have been in for thousands of years - is that how we become un-radical in your mind? Add in a bit of bulldozing of villages for good measure. All better!

The door is over there if you're unwilling to discuss this without throwing around stupid accusations of extremism.
 
Western Arrogance and Racism? What?

You do know that the Palestinian Muslims took that land from the Byzantines in 600 AD, before then it was conquered from Israel by Rome and Pompey

Pretty much every nation was founded on the land stolen from someone else. That doesn't mean modern acts of usurpation should be tolerated. This is the modern era, not 600AD.

If anything the order of succession should be Jews, Christians, and then Muslims in Palestine.

The Jews have no nation! The Palestinians have Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and all the other Muslim nations to go to. Israel was set up to be a safe haven for the Jewish people after the Holocaust and was chosen in the Jewish homeland.

Here's the crux of the issue. The Palestinians are a group and a group is made up of members. You can't say it's okay to take land that is currently recognised as Palestinian because their ethnicity has other lands. Their individuals don't! The lands are recognised as theirs. That's where they live and where their livelihoods are. You can't just take everything they own and say they can always go elsewhere. That's not right.

Tell me where the racism comes from lmfao.

Racism probably is the wrong word. Racism blinds you from reality with prejudices against other groups. What we have here is people being blinded from reality with their own mentality that they deserve something, even if it means stealing it from others.


Geez you guys are so dumb and you are speaking out of your butt. I still think it is more about anti-semitism and anti-religion that you guys lash out at Israel being in Civ and not for any logical reasons. You are trying as hard as you can to try to make a logical argument to hide your own hatred of the Jews and it sounds bad. Read what you are writing and how radical and far-out there it sounds.

How :):):):)ing dare you. How dare you call anyone anti-Semite. It's a ridiculous statement that is nothing more than several logical fallacies bowed together with a tight knot. Poisoning the well, strawman, two wrongs make a right. Your argument is ridiculous and the fact you'd even make it illustrates nothing but arrogance and an over-inflated ego.

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And where are any of those major powers you just named today? The Military of Israel today could crush any of them with no problem. Civ isn't just about ancient history, it's about the big picture. Israel has outlasted them all, and is by far the biggest force of the middle east today.

I doubt that Israel is capable of defeating Italy in a war without using it's nuclear weapons.
Also most of those former great powers are still around and unlike Israel they either fought for their right to be an independent nation or weren't conquered at all. Some examples: Greece got conquered by the Ottomans and later they fought a war of independence against them and won. Persia never got conquered or at least held for a longer period successfully. Rome became Italy and had an own large colonial empire.
Israel on the other hand was created by the allies after WWII, if WWII didn't happen there wouldn't be an Israel today. Most of the former master of Israel were already independent and some of them even great powers at the time Israel was created.;)
 
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