Asterix the Gaul -- Or: How to get the biggest bang out of the Gallic Swordsman

[Lanzelot]

always happy to be at your service.

Thanks a lot!

if you only would always listen to me like that!

Well, if I'm really convinced of something, I can be really "stubborn"... (On the other hand, I am also quite "tenacious" and fight on to the bitter end in seemingly hopeless situations... )

 

[Aabraxan]

My apologies, gang. I've simply been too busy to play Turns 41-50 (2150-1750 BC), having had a death in the family and starting a 2nd job. I've also decided that my game is never going to catch up with some of the others, due to some early mistakes I made.

IOW, please don't hold up the assessment phase for me. I''ll plan on picking up Lanz's 1750 save and playing from there.

 

[templar_x]

Thanks a lot!


Well, if I'm really convinced of something, I can be really "stubborn"... (On the other hand, I am also quite "tenacious" and fight on to the bitter end in seemingly hopeless situations... )

it would have been enough to put the second under quotations marks

 

[splunge the 2nd]

Sorry to hear about your loss, Aabraxan. Hope things settle down and the job is lucrative.

 

[Spoonwood]

Sorry for your loss Aabraxan.

 

[Aabraxan]

Thanks, guys.

 

[Elephantium]

... belated condolences, Aabraxan!

 

[creamcheese]

Should we be working on our next set? This game has slowed down a bit.

 

[AnthonyIII]

Sorry to hear that, Aabraxan. I've been following this all the way and really hope you guys continue soon.

 

[splunge the 2nd]

I'm assuming we're waiting for critique on the last set, but I'm happy to plod forwards!

 

[TheOverseer714]

My apologies, gang. I've simply been too busy to play Turns 41-50 (2150-1750 BC), having had a death in the family and starting a 2nd job. I've also decided that my game is never going to catch up with some of the others, due to some early mistakes I made.

IOW, please don't hold up the assessment phase for me. I''ll plan on picking up Lanz's 1750 save and playing from there.

My deepst sympathies, my friend. Having had a recent loss myself, I know what you are going through. Hang in there.

 

[Lanzelot]

Sorry, I should really try and keep the speed up a bit more...

Anyway, for now we'll just continue with as many people as we have left. I have PMed with Aabraxan and he is going to jump back into the game later, when his situation has settled down again. My sincere condolences here as well!

So here is what I came up with in terms of "tips'n'tricks" for creamcheese and splunge the 2nd:

creamcheese:
The game looks still "well on track". 5 towns established and Entremont has now entered the perfect 4-turn cycle (just remember to assign the river plain from Lugdunum to Entremont, when Entremont grows to 6 next turn). And in terms of research you are only 2 turns behind compared to my attempt, so the slingshot should not be a problem.

One point I would like to dwell on in a bit more detail here is worker management. I noticed you are letting your workers work in pairs. On the one hand this has the advantage of giving you the benefits of a certain improvement earlier. (Example: two workers are to build two mines. If you let each worker build a mine on a different tile, you'll get both mines after 6 turns, so during the first 7 turns you gain 5x0 + 2x2 = 4 shields from these mines. If you let the workers work in pairs, the first mine finishes after 3 turns and the 2nd one after 7 turns, so you get 2x0 + 4x1 + 1x2 = 6 shields.) On the other hand it has the disadvantage, that you get less improvements done in the same time, because more workers have to waste a move when entering an un-roaded tile. (Example: two workers are to road&mine two tiles. When working in pairs, you need 12 turns for this: T1 both workers move on the first tile, T2-3 road finished, T4-6 mine finished; T7 move on second tile, T8-9 road finished, T10-12 mine finished. When working by themselves, however, they only need 10 turns: T1 workers move on both tiles, T2-4 both roads finished, T5-10 both mines finished. How come this is two full turns faster? Firstly, both workers loose one move by having to enter both tiles. Secondly, a road takes 3 worker-moves, so two workers should actually finish it in 1.5 turns. But as the game has only integer turn numbers, each worker wastes "half a turn" for each road, adding up to the second lost turn...)

I think, in the early game, when there is only a small number of workers, getting the most out of the worker turns is more important than having this or that improvement 2 turns earlier. (There are of course exceptions, like when having a mine a turn earlier saves you from wasting 6 out of the 7 shields your capital is producing.)
Any other ideas on this topic?

Another point worth considering: you could switch Richborough from warrior to curragh. Not completely sure, which is better, but I would opt for the curragh. The idea is to travel as far as possible, before the little nutshell is running into the first barb galleys. (I think, coastal barb nests start spitting out galleys, once two or more nations know Writing, is that true? Also, barb nests start producing horsemen, once two or more nations know the Wheel?!) In any case, getting the curragh out a handful of turns earlier can mean the difference between discovering the other continent(s) successfully or being sunk on the home shore...


splunge the 2nd:
You forgot to attach your save file... So I'll try to go by the turn log, using the 2150 BC save as starting point.

First: can it be that you wasted a turn with your settler in T41-43? It appears you went S-SE-SE in three turns and then settled. But there was already a road SE of Entremont, so you could have moved SE-S-SE in two turns and settled a turn earlier?!

The strong point of this game was clearly the early curragh. (This is probably one justification for settling Alesia so far from Entremont on the coast.) However, then I see that you lost the curragh out on sea after only 4 turns. This is quite a heavy loss! Did you really have to leave the shore already that early? Usually I keep exploring the home shore for quite a while, hoping to find a safe passage without having to jeopardize the precious vessel. Only when a large part of the shore is explored without finding a safe passage, I sent it on a suicide mission. (Or when "something promising" can be seen just out of reach that might justify the risk, like the distant coast that PaperBeetle spotted in his game.)

In terms of research you are doing ok, only 4-5 turns left on CoL, so the slingshot looks doable. Unfortunately in your game (as opposed to creamcheese's game) the AI already knows Writing by know, but I guess this is a "luck factor" that cannot really be influenced.

 

[splunge the 2nd]

Oops-sorry I forgot the save. when I'm home, I can post. I decided to send my curraugh straight out as the north only had Americans and I wanted to establish cross sea contacts raher than spy America's territory. In hindsight, northern sailing might have spotted a safer sea route. C'est la guerre!
I'll see when I can play the next 10. I'm still in it!

 

[creamcheese]

Okay, I'll see if I have time for the next set this evening after I do my turns for Rise of Carthage.

Thanks for all the advice on workers.

 

[Lanzelot]

Ok, I finished my set, so all of you have something to read over Christmas...

Spoiler :

T051, 1725 BC:
The American warrior does not attack and fortifies on the hill outside Richborough instead.
Chinese worker starts road.
Scout 1W on the coast for better vision.
Lugdunum switches from the plains tile to the cow for growth in two turns. We only loose a coin that would go into lux tax anyway...

T052, 1700 BC:
Entremont settler -> settler
Settler moves to Alesia.
Worker E of Alesia has finished road and moves to BG SE of Alesia.
Scout 1N.

I can now lower the lux slider to 20%.

The mine on the river BG S of Alesia is going to finish IBT, therefore, in order to put more shields into Alesia's granary, I switch Camulodunum from that BG to the free irrigated plains in the west and give said BG to Alesia. The extra shield from the mine would be lost to corruption in Camulodunum anyway.

Entremont switches the forest back to the mined river grassland.

T053, 1675 BC:
Alesia grows to 4, picking up two extra spt, so that the granary goes from 20 turns down to 10 turns.
Lugdunum also grows, picking up the forest. Change it to the plains tile 1W of Camulodunum for 4-turn growth. (The irrigation on the cow is going to finish IBT, providing for 5fpt.) Camulodunum only needs 2s for finishing the warrior, so it can work the unimproved river grassland this turn.

The two workers at Alesia start roading. (I'm planning to use the two finished roads for moving the worker 1S two the BG 1SE without loss of time. The mine on that second BG will then finish in the same 6 turns as it would if I built it with one worker right away.)

Settler moves between fish and river on the eastern coast.
Scout 1NE.

T054, 1650 BC:
Timber is delivered to Lugdunum, barracks now due in 11 turns.
Camulodunum finishes MP warrior, which moves to Entremont. Because of this, lux tax can be kept at 20%.
Verulamium is founded on the east coast and starts another curragh.

Scout got kicked out of Chinese territory (1N) and goes 1NE.

Sugar worker 1SE, the two workers at Lugdunum start a road each.

Lugdunum needs to switch from the plains tile to the unimproved BG 1S, so that Entremont can pick up the plains.

I lower the science slider to 60%, Philosophy still due in 2, netting +6gpt instead of -1gpt.

T055, 1625 BC:
4 more American warriors become visible on the northern border. It may be time for starting peace negotiations, before revolting into Anarchy... Unfortunately they still refuse our envoy.
Rome finished Map Making.

Worker starts road.
Scout 1W onto the mountain.

T056, 1600 BC:
Philosophy finishes, I pick Republic as the next project and get it for free. Usually I would revolt now in interturn, as then this turn would already count towards my anarchy period, so I would loose this turn's shield production, but not the commerce, which already got collected. As we are religious, this would mean we would loose only two turns worth of shield production and one turn worth of commerce. However, I still want this turn's settler to complete, and also another American warrior appeared on the scene, and I don't want to revolt with so many enemies close by.

Entremont settler -> settler.
Settler moves 1W-2S on the worker who is about to finish the road.
The two workers at Alesia start a mine 1SE of Alesia.
Scout 1W.

Sell Rome Philosophy for Warrior Code. I'm thinking about also buying Map Making for Republic from them, but I want to get at least MM, Mathematics and Currency out of Republic, so I'm holding it back a bit. Set research to 0% and lux now down to 10%, making 28gpt.

Contact America, but they still won't talk. Therefore I switch Entremont and Richborough to a spear, something which I normally don't do at all (what a waste to build defensive units...!) But 6 American warriors compared to my 5 defenders make me quite worried. And building two archers is no good, as the Americans can fortify on the mountains to the north, where attacking them with archers would still run quite a risk of loosing. So I better let them attack me.
This is quite bad: I can't revolt, my 4-turner is messed up and my western curragh, which was only one turn from completion, is going to be delayed indefinitely.

My current micro-management deserves a few pictures:




Richborough will still finish the spear in 4 turns (1+2+2+2), but will grow two turns faster compared to staying with the sugar. Entremont will build a spear in 3 turns (6+7+7) and will then hopefully be able to fall back to 4-turn settler production. And Camulodunum still gets the warrior in 2.

The MP warrior from Lugdunum moves 1N on the tile that will get a road IBT. It is well possible, that we need him for defending Entremont next turn. Of course this means increasing the lux slider from 10 to 50% and costs us 15g. Darn. This game is definitely ruined now. Can't revolt, can't build settlers, don't get an early curragh, and all because of the stupid DoW from the Americans, which came way too early. If I'm lucky, I can revolt in 4 turns from now, after the two spears are finished.

T057, 1575 BC:
As expected, all 3 American warriors move onto the mountain 1N of Entremont.
I move the warriors from Lugdunum and Alesia into Entremont and have now 4 defenders. Of course Lugdunum is now undefended, and there's a Roman warrior down there...

Settler moves on the dyes. Worker W of Lugdunum to BG, worker N of Lugdunum starts a mine, Chinese worker as well.

Scout 1W.

Entremont switches the river grassland to the forest in order to finish the spear on time. Lugdunum has picked the river hill on growth, and I keep it, because the barracks will then finish in 5 turns, while growth is only one turn slower than with 5fpt.
Alesia also has picked a hill on growth, but as that shield is wasted anyway, I switch it to the horse tile.

I establish an embassy in Rome for 38g. Perhaps that makes it less likely that they attack as well. (At least they are polite now.) Rome is building the Pyramids, iron not yet connected. At least some good news!


IBT:
The Americans attack! First, the conscript warrior that had been fortified on the hill N of Richborough looses without making a scratch.
Richborough:
Warrior(A) (2/2) vs Warrior(C) (3/3) -> Warrior(C) (3/3)

Entremont:
Warrior(A) (3/3) vs Warrior(C) (3/3) -> Warrior(C) (3/4)
Warrior(A) (3/3) vs Warrior(C) (3/3) -> Warrior(C) (3/3)
Warrior(A) (3/3) vs Warrior(C) (3/3) -> Warrior(A) (3/4)
The remaining two warriors enter our territory and move onto the mountain 2NW of Entremont.

T058, 1550 BC:
Camulodunum warrior -> warrior.

Gergovia is settled on the dyes tile, starts a curragh.

Scout 1W.
Warrior from Camulodunum moves into Lugdunum. One of the warriors from Entremont moves back into Alesia. Lower lux back to 10%, making 33gpt, yeah.

Worker finished road S-SE of Richborough and moves 1N of Lugdunum to help mining. Worker on BG S of Lugdunum starts road.

Entremont switches forest back to river grassland.
Richborough picked up the sugar on growth and will finish the spear in two as expected.

America is now willing to talk, and they know Polytheism. I could get peace for Philosophy. Difficult question. After loosing 3 of their 6 warriors last turn, they are no longer a threat, so I could benefit from the war happiness for quite a while now. However, if I take the peace deal, I can immediately revolt and don't need to finish the two spears?! Richborough would switch to a galley (after buying MM from Rome) and Entremont could go back to settler-production after the anarchy. Also I can finally expand into the north without having to worry too much.

Ok, I take the deal: peace + 3g for peace + Philosophy.

I revolt immediately and hire entertainers/taxmen as necessary to keep all towns happy. Entremont gets back the game to avoid loosing food.

Strange: after the revolution, the Romans went from polite to cautious and the Chinese from polite to annoyed...

Sell the Romans Republic for Map Making and RoP.
The Americans are not willing to give Polytheism for Map Making + CoL + all my gold!
Darn. Before they switch Rep for Poly with the Romans, I gift them CoL and then buy Polytheism for Republic.

Here is how I set up my towns for the anarchy period:


Verulamium takes a floodplain from Alesia to grow in 2.

T059, 1525 BC:
The Americans move their wounded warrior N and their remaining 2 warriors to the mountain N of Entremont. I move one warrior from Richborough into Entremont, in order to have 3 defenders, just to be on the safe side. However, as I haven't broken any deals yet, it is to be expected that the Americans will honor the 20 turn peace deal.

Camulodunum has grown to 3 and hires a taxman.

Scout 1N.

Rome and America are in anarchy, China is completely backwards...

IBT:
The last Americans retreat.

T060, 1500 BC:
Anarchy is over and we become a Republic.

Rome and America have swapped Polytheism for Map Making. Darn, if one of them now gets Math, I have nothing to trade. Perhaps I should research Math myself?!

Scout 1W.

Mine SE of Alesia is finished, one worker moves on the horse tile, the other one on the BG.

Move one warrior from Entremont to Alesia, and disband one warrior in Alesia, so that the granary finishes one turn faster. Granary now finishes in 3, while Alesia grows in 4.

I think that Camulodunum will not be disbanded so fast, so I decide to build a barracks there.

Lux tax needs to be increased to 20% in order to make everyone happy, and after all towns are optimized again, my Republic economy looks like this:


The tiles are assigned like this:


For now there are two questions, which I haven't decided upon yet:

• Is it worth it to build the Forbidden Palace in a fast military game like this? If yes, where?
• Should I research Math, or rather hope to discover other continents quickly and buy it there using Republic? Preferably I should be able to build marketplaces and aqueducts during my golden age.

 

[splunge the 2nd]

Here's my turnset. I think I forgot to log a turn and endedd up at turn 60 whe I thought it was 59. I'm including my last save.
Pardon my typing-I'm tired.

Spoiler :

Turn 51
Entremeont Settler>Settler
Turn lux to 10 and research to 70 with COL

in 5
Move settler towards Alesia to settler near

iron.
Southern warriro moves MW. Central warrior

moves to rendezvous with settler.

Turn 52
Alsesia Curragh>Barracks
Alesia worker moves north to road BG on

river, leaving roaded GL unimproved
Curragh sails hoping for better luck.
Lugdunum worker moves south of town to cow.

Other starts irrigation.
Southern warrior explores NW, avoding Roman

territory.
Cumuldunum works gold hills and I can turn

down research even more, COL in 4.

Turn 53
Romans start pyramids
Alesia worker roads BG
Curragh sails north
Southern warrior continues heading NW,

spots iron mountain outside of Roman

territory.
Worker roads cow.

Turn 54
American warrior nears our border.

Everyone is up Wheel, warriro code and

mysticism
Southern warriro heads north. Curragh

heads north.
Settler arrives at iron hills
Lux up to avoid riot at Entermeont. I'm

not sure I still "get" settler factories.

Can I cahnge assignment of tiles to include

the gold hill without messing up settler

build(Screenie attached). CoL in 2.

Turn 55
Chinese warriro tests our southern borders.
Richborough built 2 south of alesia to get

iron. Starts worker.
Southern warrior moves north and sees

peninsula. Curragh sails north, looking for

a north east passage

Turn 56
CoL done. Philosphy in 6 with Entremont

working the gold. Send Lugdunom's warriro

for MP
2 workers mine the cow.
Alesia worker moves to iron. Need more

workers, lots of roaded but unimproved

tiles.
Southern warrior explores. Curragh moves

north and Lincoln asks it to leave.

Turn 57
Entermont settler>worker
Lugdunum curragh>warrior
Curragh sets sail W, SW to explore along

the peninsula seen by southern warrior.
Settler moves to S, SE of Lugdunum to get

river and dyes.
Worker roads iron.
Southern warrior sees silk on peninsula.
Trade Rome CoL for map amking, mysticism

and 36 gold. America CoL or WC and 12 gold

(they have polytheism). China CoL for

wheel (they have 0 cash).

Turn 58
Entermont worker>worker
Verulmanium founded. Starts warrior.
Workers move to dyes, curraghs sail.
Lugdunum will riot next turn so make a

scientist to cut spending, avoid lux and

Phil in 4.

Turn 59/60
Workers start roading dyes. Ships move.
Alesia, Cundunum to scientist, philosphy in

2.

View attachment TrainingDayGame, 1750BC.SAV

View attachment TrainingDayGame, 1500SAV.SAV

I'm trying to upload some screen shots I have questions about- I can't quite figure how to post them. Help please

 

[creamcheese]

I'm trying to upload some screen shots I have questions about- I can't quite figure how to post them. Help please

You can upload directly with the manage attachments feature (I think?), or you can host them on a third party image hosting site (that's what I do). Upload to the site, then you copy the link to the image and hit the little image tag button and paste the url.

That reminds me I need to do my set .

 

[templar_x]

well, this did not really work out the way i wanted.

i was bullied for gold and a tech that i did not want to give. i lost the philo race by one turn. thus all my preparations (no warrior builds, workers in place to irrigate) did not fit any more. who has ever heard that the Yanks go Philo first?!???

on the plus side, the 2nd factory started smoothly and spits out workers. and my first lux is to get connected this turn.

this is what my empire looks like.

everyone and his brother is set to research Rep now. what a setback.

t_x

 

[creamcheese]

Sorry it took so long to do this.

Turn Log:

Spoiler :

Turn 0, 1750BC; Everything as I left it, hit enter.

IBT; zzz

Turn 1, 1725BC; Workers road near second factory. Switch Lugdunum and Richborough to curraghs. Find chinese in the south. They have similar techs to the others. MM Entre for 5 food. Fiddle with sliders.

IBT; Code of Laws-->Philosophy in 9.

Turn 2, 1700BC; Workers move about. Scouting. Fiddle around and Philospohy in 6. I notice Rome's price for writing has dropped dramatically, I decide I hade better trade it if I want anything. I get IW and the Wheel from Lincoln, and Warrior code +4g from Mao. Nothing from Rome since they have nothing. Hopefully they won't all go right for Philosophy.

IBT; Entremont settler-->settler.

Turn 3, 1675BC; Settler to dyes in the south. My guess was right, Rome has Writing this turn. Mao got math from the US as well. Hopefully I'll be able to get that for CoL in a few turns.

IBT; Lugdunum curragh-->worker. Camulodunum worker-->Barracks.

Turn 4, 1650BC; Worker to BG. Curragh scouts.

IBT; zzz

Turn 5, 1625BC; MM Entremont for food. US Has Mysticism. I trade CoL for Myst from US, then CoL for Math from China.

IBT; Richbor curragh-->worker.

Turn 6, 1600BC; Curragh scouts south, sees a likely spot of a later suicide. Worker moves.

IBT; Rome demands Myst, I say no, they back down, LOL. Entremont settler-->settler.

Turn 7, 1575BC; Settler to hill near Iron. Found Verulamium near dyes -->warrior.

IBT; Lugdunum worker-->Barracks.

Turn 8, 1550BC; Worker to BG. Scouting. MM Richbor so it doesn't riot. Philosophy in 1.

IBT; Philosophy-->Republic-->Literature. Slingshot!

Turn 9, 1525BC; I am getting crowded by the AI, so I decide to switch Entremont to a GL prebuild. I revolt to Republic. Religious is nice here. Fix cities, Entre is starving slightly, 3 scientists give me Lit in 23.

IBT; Romans are building the Pyramids. At least that will keep them from massing Legionaires.

Turn 10, 1500BC; Spot what might be another island in range of Curragh. Fix Camulodunum (it grew). Lit in 16.

Okay, I got the slingshot! This was the highlight of the set, as Rome was almost at writing more quickly than I had hoped. also managed to trade away writing and CoL for everything I was missing. I am in anarchy, 1 IBT from Republic. I am up 2 techs on USA, 3 on China, and 5 on Rome.

My only worry is that I will get declared on before I can get my barracks and Gallics up and running. Rome already tried to bully me. and they have enough legions to roll over me right now. Luckily I think they are so backwards I may be able to bribe them.

USA is for sure my first target now. They are the tech leaders behind me, they don't have 50 million legions, and they are crowding me from the north. New York from a popped settler has made me dying for space.

I am starting on the Great Library as well, I hope to get it and shut off research after lit, allowing me to rush and upgrade Swordsmen for my early push.

 

[Spoonwood]

I am starting on the Great Library as well, I hope to get it and shut off research after lit, allowing me to rush and upgrade Swordsmen for my early push.

Since this comes as a training thread, I'll say that discounting the cost of a warrior to pillage and 6 regular workers on a hill, or whatever it is on a mountain as non-industrious (9?), it always comes as less expensive to upgrade than to cash-rush. A warrior-gallic upgrade without Leo's costs you 90 gold (3 gold per shield), while cash-rushing 30 shields with 10 in the box costs you 120 gold (4 gold per shield). The value of tieing up workers and a unit isn't taken into account here, but you only need one resource source (and you only want one roaded if you try this) for any size map. So, disconnect-reconnect costs you less proportion wise for larger and larger maps, and the more units you can upgrade the better it works.

For the more experienced players with the Celts, how many gallics can you expect to upgrade in a game like this?