Athens or Sparta?

[Xen]

Delphi? the defacto religious capital of Greece- NEVER, you perhaps are confusing it wth Delian league treasury, which they loot, but moved into Athens, in action was legal- if a bit popus in regards tyo the other cities.

I will also ask- what the hell are you talking about with "class wars"- the only thing that comes close would be the Roman social wars, and even they are a far cry from being what you seem to be talking about (the social wars were a war by Romes allies to gain Roman citizenship, and while they lost, they were granted citizenship eventually anyway)

also, care to explain what advances came from the colonies, like Syracuse, during the era of the peolponesian war?

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

I think he means after the war when both Sparta and more notably Athens went down the gurgler.

 

[Capulet]

Originally posted by _Philospher_
One of the oldest political wars (The Peloponnesian Wars) was fought between the allies/subjects of Athens and the allies of Sparta. For those who do know the details about the war, who would you have fought or supported?

Athens was a Democracy, while in Sparta you had to join the Army and serve till you were 60. So I'd pick Athens.

 

[Enemy Ace]

Sparta was to its people as the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany was to theirs. I would retrospectively support Athens.

 

[Amenhotep7]

Athens' ideals fit mine more, but Athens was becoming corrupt. The Delian League was supposed to be a "Confederacy" to protect against the Persians. Then when members of the Delian Legue felt that Persia was no longer a threat and left, Athens conquered them. Athens had set a trap, and a darn good one too. Personally, I'm glad Sparta showed that they weren't the only super-power...Of course, you could apply the same thing to us Americans!...Not the conquering our allies thing, though.

Edit: Then again, Athens was much more culturally advanced...If athenian and spartan ideals could combine in some way, negating all opposites, it would be the coolest civ! Hmm...Getting Idea for mod.

Edit2:

I am amazed that people support Athens becuase it had an almost false democracy over Sparta which had an oligarchy; even though Athens was out to make an empire and exterminated anyone in their way.

And this was ancient times by the way. I don't see how anceint democracy is any better than ancient tyrannies or dictatorships. In fact in the ancient times, democratically elected leaders were bigger arseholes and less capable leaders than those who were born and fashioned into the job.

This statement reignaites my faith in Sparta! I'm still pro-democratic, but Athens became it's own worst enemy.

 

[_Philospher_]

Like Amenhotep says I too would be curious to know how powerful Greece would of been had Sparta anbd Athens resolved issues and joined the greek world as one state. I have no doubt they would of been strong, IMO.

 

[Amenhotep7]

Originally posted by _Philospher_
Like Amenhotep says I too would be curious to know how powerful Greece would of been had Sparta anbd Athens resolved issues and joined the greek world as one state. I have no doubt they would of been strong, IMO.

Can somebody say new scenario?

 

[Hygro]

Originally posted by pomsa
In Athens, less than 25% of the population were citizens.

Even worse: it was 10%

I would support Athens because a democracy is better than an oligarchy, even if its a small democracy.

 

[Xen]

Originally posted by Hygro


Even worse: it was 10%

I would support Athens because a democracy is better than an oligarchy, even if its a small democracy.

if it was ANY less the 20% Athens, more or less, would have EVERY SINGLY citizen during the peloponesian wars

Athens was a city os OVER 100,000 people

 

[Ozz]

Originally posted by Mongoloid Cow
I think he means after the war when both Sparta and more notably Athens went down the gurgler.

No, I meant a lot of the people who made the advances in philosophy, mathematics, medicence and history were'nt born in Athens. (Just like LA or New York today)

Originally posted by Amenhotep7
but Athens was becoming corrupt[/B]

The "class" war between the rich and poor was also paralyzing
the functions of state, elections would become gang street fights between factions.

 

[Titan2018]

Both city-states were harsh (and to some extent brutal) by modern standards with Sparta basically being a military dictatorship but Athnes having more slaves and harsher treatment of women. I'd support Athens through because they actually had free-time to develope a culture. Social life in Sparta on the other hand was geared entirely toward war with little energy left over for anything else (hense the term spartian meaning purely functional and undecrative). Athens may have ultimately lost the war but they had a MUCH larger impact on the future of Western civilization.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Sparta without a doubt. Their ideals, philosophy and way of life is much more in line with my own.

 

[Xen]

Originally posted by Simon Darkshade
Sparta without a doubt. Their ideals, philosophy and way of life is much more in line with my own.

but your ideals in this instance are hardly acceptable to the masses, and therefore, wrong.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

The masses accept and love them. If they know what's good for them.
And anyway, the masses are hardly a measure of right or wrong; that would make reality television and disco good things.

 

[Xen]

Originally posted by Ozz

The "class" war between the rich and poor was also paralyzing
the functions of state, elections would become gang street fights between factions.

again WHAT CLASS WAR?

 

[Amenhotep7]

I have to agree with Xen, WHAT CLASS WAR? I typed in "Athenian Class War" in google, and got nothing compared to what ur saying...There was no class war...We would agree if you cited some info...

 

[Oruc]

Nope!