Atomic bombs and AI

[Chorda]

Game from 3.0, haven't seen anything in changelog on topic.
There was a war with AI who never used atomic bomb despite of having them.
First screen - I thought he do not use it while having own units in range. Second - my thought he didn't use bombs because of his own territory. And last screen proves AI just don't want to nuke my armies. He could nuke Singapore long before even at first screen safely for his territory.
And even after reviving Assyria,seemingly , nothing prevent using of nukes, and he refuses.
Which is kinda frustrating: slots for airunits were blocked by atomic bombs, which gave me huge advantage in winning the war.
Can AI's behavior be improved on their nuke-ability? I saw them only bulling lesser civs with nukes.

ps. he could, sometimes, overcome my AAIs and other interceptors, so that's not a question if he even used airunits.

 

[Stalker0]

The other thing with the AI and nukes, the AI still stumbles when it comes to fallout. It gets really jittery with its units, and it’s tactics somewhat fall to pieces. Further it’s very slow to clean up fallout.

As a consequence I find the fallout a far bigger impact than the Nuke itself in many cases.

 

[alchx]

3.0.4
Assyria has at least 12 atomic bombs, but has never hit my troops or fleets. We are on different continents. Did not attack even before the loss of one city, although there were 3 atomic bombs in the city. The bombs were moved to another city.
Once hit Denmark, with which they have a common border. The radioactive debris near the Danish city has not been removed for 25 turns.

AI generally has big problems with workers. There are very few of them. I would suggest that by turn 400 everyone should have at least 15 or even 20 workers, or 3-4 per city. 20 units will not have any effect on the AI economy, but it will allow them to quickly restore all the damage, roads, and remove radioactive debris even during active hostilities.

Roads are an incredible problem. I had to deliver about 10 workers to another continent in order to build roads on the territories of city-states (thank that you can build roads at least somewhere on the territory of another state), which, finally. allowed to overcome 1/2-2/3 of the mainland in one turn, instead of spending 10 turns at the same distance, getting stuck near the rivers, in every bush and swamp.

 

[ilteroi]

AI uses nukes on cities only. Code contributions to change this are welcome. There are some pointers on github.

Roadbuilding logic, same thing. They connect their cities and fortifications. Lategame maybe more could be built but where? Code needed.

Also the AI aims for N+1 workers where N is the number of cities. Could be changed to min(N*2,N+era). But they will also disband idle workers possibly leading to nasty loops.

As for fallout removal, maybe that simply needs a higher priority but could also be because workers stay out of warzones.

 

[CppMaster]

or 3-4 per city.

Wow, that much? I only aim for number of cities + 1. Why would you need so many workers? With my amount I have all improvements and roads/rails done in reasonable time. More than that it's just hammers/gold sink

 

[alchx]

Вау, так много? Я стремлюсь только к количеству городов + 1. Зачем вам нужно так много рабочих? С моей суммой все улучшения и дороги/рельсы сделаны в разумные сроки. Более того, это просто молотки / золотая раковина

If cities are captured, then 5-10 are desirable for each, in order to quickly build roads and the army could maneuver. AI almost never builds roads, you have to do it yourself in new territories.

20 units with 5-6 gold per turn will require 100-120 coins. This is 2-3 caravans in the late game, when at least 10 are available with different technologies, policies and franchises. Plus, by this point, all cities will have all sorts of improvements to markets, banks, etc.

I already wrote that you can give the AI the task of building roads to citadels, forts, each resource tile, to desert + hill, forest + hill tiles that require 3 movement points, and around each of these points. Probably also to each tile of rivers and swamps, as it hurts to watch wars between AIs near rivers. Of the two AIs, the one that has twice as many cities and can trample the enemy with its units will move forward. Every river is an insurmountable obstacle.

Plus build roads where caravans move. Caravans are a good indicator of the shortest distance between cities, and having a road will help the AI both attack and defend in that direction.

Also, each city must be equipped with a road in the first radius. It is possible, depending on the era, to expand the requirement to the 2nd and 3rd radius. In particular, the requirements of far radii can help create a road network in deserts and forests on the outskirts in late game.

 

[CppMaster]

Isn't it too costly to have that many roads and workers?

 

[alchx]

As for fallout removal, maybe that simply needs a higher priority but could also be because workers stay out of warzones.

It seems to me that it is better to give higher priority to workers to build roads on the tiles where their military units (with 80%+ hp) are located if a state of war has come. Workers may be captured, but there is a good chance that they will be returned. And if they don’t, then the enemy is so strong that it doesn’t make much sense for workers - they will still sit in cities and demand maintenance

Here on my continent there is Japan and the Zulus - their wars rarely last less than 30 turns. The Zulus have probably declared war on Japan 6 or 7 times already. Once Japan. All this time they are fighting in an area full of swamps and forests, occasionally reaching Japanese cities. Japan is unable to push the enemy back, as all of its units get stuck in this area on its own territory. The cavalry can advance 2 tiles and get stuck. Infantry is forced to take the advance of the amphibian and woodman instead of the flank bonus just to avoid getting stuck on the adjacent forest or swamp tile. In 400 turns it was possible to build F1 tracks here.

 

[alchx]

Isn't it too costly to have that many roads and workers?

It may be expensive for Tradition and Progress, but there are many discounts for Authority.

I have 7 cities located 4+ tiles apart from each other, so the area is very large, 85-90% of the territory is covered by railways, 20-30 workers, 100 military units, about 40-50 aircraft 70%-80% workers are on another continent and have built roads there - these workers were bought precisely for the construction of roads on another continent.

13 caravans, of which 8 or 9 carry food, the rest are trade.

No problems with the maintenance of the army, workers and roads. In the golden age, +700 only your income, with trade more than 1000. In normal times, +350..+400.

Alternatively, for the AI, you can reduce the cost of maintaining workers and roads by 50-70%, as long as the AI has a decently developed territory. It looks ridiculous for a country that on turn 400 has only one road between three cities and the length of this road is a maximum of 10 tiles. At this point, every tile there should be equipped with a railroad.

 

[azum4roll]

Building roads everywhere hurts village/town yields, since they're only good tiles on city connection and trade route.

 

[Der_Zorn_gottes]

I don't know man, in the game I just finished (immortal/huge/marathon)the AI went batsh1t crazy on the nukes.
During the last dozen turns, every turn on average two messages of droped or intercepted nukes popped up. I was just lucky that I have just recently peaced out with my most agressive neighbour and could ride my spaceship to victory, but still. In that game there were more nukes than in my 6600 hours before.

 

[alchx]

Building roads everywhere hurts village/town yields, since they're only good tiles on city connection and trade route.

Yes, but in the current situation, AI is not even able to maneuver on its own territory, not to mention aggressive wars. If one of the two AIs does not have twice as many cities that will allow them to quickly produce units, then both AIs will push on the nearest river until one of them makes a technological breakthrough or accumulates about 10-15 cannons with +1 radius.

 

[youngsteve]

Personally I wish nukes were not in the game. Once used the reality is the world would be a wasteland, unless only one civ had them. There is a reason that they have only been used once in history, which was a warning to the world of the consequences of using them. The way people are talking, is the only real concern is cleaning up afterward, & then going on as before. My opinion is once used it should be game over.

 

[alchx]

All these roads in the territory of the city-states were built by me. Now you can go from the right coast to the left coast in 1 turn. Without roads, it would take 10 turns or more because of the constant hustle and bustle.

There is another suggestion here:
Over time, city-states accumulate a lot of units (each has 10-15) and these units do not move anywhere just by consuming memory. It seems to me that the 'war between city-states' quest should be much more frequent, even if there are 2-3 of them at the same time. Have allied city-states declare war on neutral or alien city-states. Let them swim to visit each other on other continents. Let there be movement everywhere. They must also have some claims to each other. And I would even allow city-state units to travel freely through the territories of the Great Empires, because now they can only enter the territory of an ally and mainly during a war.

It might even be worth creating a 'city-state struggle to leave the sphere of influence' event if there are 2-3 promises of protection from other empires, there are 10+ military units, there is no our caravan to the city. A coup d'état occurs in the city-state and another faction comes to power. A war of at least 15 moves. Empires that promise protection automatically go to war on the side of the city-state against the owner of the sphere of influence.

In screenshot 2, there are 5 city-states in my sphere of influence (one on the right is not visible). These units will exist until the end of the game. I have no plans to declare war on Japan. Japan will not declare war on me, because. them has military power 3 times lower and near the Zulus. Let the units swim and explore the world, look at the beauties of other city-states.

And one more suggestion: city-states are required to build roads throughout their territory - their workers still have nothing to do from the middle of the game. Another AI will never build roads.

 

[alchx]

And this is how AI roads are built. There are practically none.
In other variations of the game, around turn 200, the Ottomans were virtually destroyed due to the fact that they could not maneuver around their capital. I had to bring troops.
I helped Japan at least 5 times repulse Zulu attacks from cities.
Persia was wiped out by Assyria - 2 cities north of Denmark, 1 city was burned and replaced with a new one. Ecbatana, was taken over by the city-state of Singapore. And Singapore itself was captured by Assyria.

All you need is a good transport network.

Spoiler :

 

[CppMaster]

And this is how AI roads are built. There are practically none.

I build roads similarly, lol.

 

[alchx]

I build roads similarly, lol.

Having a good transport network on my territory allows me to send 80-90% of the troops to another continent. Since in the event of a threat, I can quickly take key places of defense. And in a few turns, produce several units that will arrive at the right place on time.