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Attacking Cities

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by ajsciri4, Nov 12, 2011.

  1. ajsciri4

    ajsciri4 Warlord

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    I started playing cIV yesterday after playing ciV for about a week and deciding cIV was probably better.

    Gunpowder units bypass a cities' defenses, so I decided to wait until I discovered gunpowder and upgraded all of my soldiers (besides a few units of pikemen to stop Persia's mounted riflemen or whatever) to grenadiers and made an army of riflemen, grenadiers, and the occasional French Musketeer.

    Persia had a lot of Longbowmen defending a city, nothing else. I don't know if I was attacking wrong or not, but apparently you can only send one unit at a time to attack a city, so I lost around five units of grenadiers trying to attack two units of Longbowmen. Anyone have tips on attacking cities? I know everyone has a different attacking style so I'd like to hear from as many people as possible.
     
  2. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    Always, always, always use siege.
    You can bombard down a city's defense, you can inflict collateral damage.
    You will drastically reduce casualties.
     
  3. ajsciri4

    ajsciri4 Warlord

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    Doesn't that just hurt a city's defense? I thought using gunpowder would avoid all of that mess
     
  4. mintegar

    mintegar Warlord

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    Catapults "Bombard" mission lowers city defense. Attack with them to inflict collateral damage on the defenders.

    This will often be a suicide if your at tech parity, but thats ok because the troops you bring along the catapults can easily clean up the weakened defenders and you come out way ahead in cost.

    Another strategy is to use a stack of mounted troops. Quite effective if you attack with Cuirassiers/Cavalry before the enemy gets to Rifling.
     
  5. Handel

    Handel Prince

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    The gunpowder units circumvent only the defense from walls and castles but the "innate" defense from the culture remains. The cities gets 20% defense per culture tick and with non-gunpowder units the higher defense kicks in; with the gunpowder units only the culture defense works.


    Edit: I know this sounds silly - in the real life the culture never ever stopped a cannon; quite the opposite - the nations with high culture always fell before the highly-uncultured but brute force of the barbarians, but the game is done in this way:)
     
  6. Matty R

    Matty R Veteran Newbie

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    First use siege equipment (Catapults, Trebuchets, Cannons etc), or Ships if the city is coastal, to reduce the defence to 0%. Then have siege equipment directly attack the defenders. Siege equipment cannot defeat units, but it causes damage to multiple units in one turn and has a chance to withdraw afterwards. Do as much collateral damage as you can, then send in your units to attack the battered and bruised defenders. :)
     
  7. TheWilltoAct

    TheWilltoAct I am observe

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    Indeed, and frankly the culture as defense concept frustrates what could have been an interesting use for gunpowder. As it stands you are better off bringing siege and perhaps city raider promoted units, once the defenses have been eroded by your siege any unit of sufficient strength can mop up.
     
  8. Dumanios

    Dumanios MLG

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    Another strategy is to use Spies to make the city revolt , thus removing defenses and not having to muck around with the bombard button. Collateral Damaging siege is still recommended.
     
  9. stormlefty4life

    stormlefty4life Chieftain

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    Yes, always have Cats or Tres....To rebuild cats are so much cheaper than rebuilding other offensive units after they die.
     
  10. GA econ FTW

    GA econ FTW Warlord

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    Unsure if this is really debated, but I also had to justify to myself how cultural strength of a city actually acted to boost military defense....Suggestion on how city culture could be construed as military defense: The Culture rating of a city could represent the willingness of non-military citizens to obfuscate or resist the enemy before the enemy occupies. It also could represent paramilitary defenders (police, firefighters, ...um...militia with right-to-bear arms and willingness to do so) and their loyalty to their civilization, thus their motivation to resist.
    Example: The roman Empire attacks into gaul, in the BC era....versus, say, a Russian Invasion of New York City, 2010 AD. One could argue that the game mechanics for culture are appreciable to what might be expected in these RL examples.....cities in Gaul would have say...20% culture to the Celt Civ, while New York City would have nearly 100% culture to the "american civ". In gaul, non military resistance wouldn't be as organized as it would in New York in 2010, also, loyalty to the Celt civ I would conject wasn't as strong as the New York Counterpart because the Roman's offering of "ripped off greek" civilization was....well, more appetizing at the time than their present civ. On the other Hand, loyalty of New Yorkers to the American civ and their willingness to not have it subverted by Russian culture via straight invasion is much stronger relatively, thus resulting in more non military individuals willing to stand against military occuptation.
    and...um....it could also be argued that siege (land and naval), arty bombardment, carpet bombing, nukes, and everything else in civ IV that reduces that rating ...well, it WOULD de-motivate non military defenders also to give a chance to marble bust sculpturing or the delicious taste of beet soup respectively....

    Also, one could argue (and I've seen it debated or joked at in these forums) how can, in the late centuries, where entire armies have moved across continents in peacetime in a year or less, take 10 or 20 turns to cross europe in wartime, even when the tiles have no military opponents?...again, one could argue that the act of crossing the culturally controlled tile implies that there is partisan and militia resistance, saboteurs, or just the plain requirement of leaving token forces of the invading army to passify, control, and administer to the conquered tile (and more importantly in pre-flight warfare, make sure the logistical supply lines to the SOD are still in effect. Even though units are NOT used to represent this, and a gold piece per turn upkeep is, the slow slog through enemy culturally controlled territory could also be justified as a standard military logistics and supply penalty.
     
  11. HorribleHarald

    HorribleHarald Warlord

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    In the beginning of the game if you are aggressive leader, just build fast a stack of warriors and promote them archer combat and then rush against the nearest rival, usually you can conquer entire civ when he/she had only 1-2 archers in cities. I do it that way when I have agg leader, especially if I have Spain my neighbor and Isabella has buddhist religion. :)
     
  12. (Pro)Peanut_P

    (Pro)Peanut_P Random Hero

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    For attacking with more than 1 unit at a time you will have to go into options and select "stack attack"
     
  13. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    @GA econ FTW
    Thanks, dude for writing it up with examples, so I dont have to do it. Yes, I do believe culture defense works good - Imagine how the Romans had to clear Carthage house by house at high cost to get the whole city, because there was high culture defense :)

    @(Pro)Peanut_P I think this is not what the OP is annoyed for - yes, stack attack works exactly as you described it, but this is only for visual purposes and to save time - the mechanics behind it are just the same and he would get those bad results (losing 5-6 grenadiers to 2 entrenched CG longbows) even if he attacked with stack attack.
     
  14. Knightly_

    Knightly_ Warlord

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    Not to confuse OP: The battle outcome of stack attack is exactly the same as in your case. Fights are still 1vs1, it just can speed up your game.

    edit: Teh Ninja was faster... guess thats a feature of ninjas :)
     
  15. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Hahah... yeah "you've been ninja'ed" literally :D
     
  16. Shizuko3

    Shizuko3 Chieftain

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    Attacking without siege is suicidal, lots of units has bonus defending the city, you need to soft them first :D
     
  17. elmurcis

    elmurcis Emperor

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    Only situation when could say "good to attack without siege" is when have lot of old units.. and dont want to waste money upgrading these... same time want to get some use of these... :)
    But even Infantry or also newbie Tank can get difficulties beating promoted hill-Longbowman in great cuture city...
     
  18. ecuizbest

    ecuizbest Chieftain

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    Don't forget doing this does give your opponent Great Gen points
     
  19. elmurcis

    elmurcis Emperor

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    sure.. but he lose city against 1 extra GG :D thats not worst change ;)
     
  20. ecuizbest

    ecuizbest Chieftain

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    true a few kamikaze's are a good way to use a couple of units on they're last legs just didn't want to see anyone thinking about cleaning out all their old units that way, without knowing the consequences
     

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