• 📚 A new project from the admin: Check out PictureBooks.io, an AI storyteller that lets you create personalized picture books for kids in seconds. Give it a try and let me know what you think!

Attacko's The Art of Defense in Civ4

troytheface

Deity
Joined
Mar 26, 2002
Messages
3,262
The first thing to keep in mind is , after you have lost a city or a terrrible blunder has left you in a less than desirable position, the honor of a spirited defense. It is not waiting and slowly getting attacked behind walled cities then reloading- rather quite the opposite- dynamic defensive play set at all instances to launch a counter attack. This is true defense- not a Maginot line- but a Stalingrad.

All attacks have one thing in common. they try to exploit a weakness. In Civ terms that means you when you have not built enough units. One of the best pieces of advice ever written on the forums was by an unknown who suggested to a new player when asked about how to play this game,
"build a bunch of axe. "

But lets say you teched slowly, no religion, your armies lost every battle, your on tundra with one wheat and a whale with no bronze or horse and your not sure how to play the game or what a library does and an enemy stack of axe just wiped out one of your three cities. Most would quit, reload, or cry home to mama. But should you? Lets look at the real situation. You have Archers.
Babylon/Native American archers are melee competitive. And too remember the power of the resourceless UU civ.
Since you may be at a loss in the open field your only alternative is guerilla promotion tactics. Guerilla Bowmen cut off the roads leading to the captured city then whip your other three and have at least 4 archers to every axe. If defense is your weak point select Babylon.
And what about the resource situation? No resources means waiting to catapults, or capturing resources, no big deal. Once again counters to the reloading, cowardly defeatist attitude.

"But i need specific tactics that work!" And there are some, allowing yourself to be invaded and catapulting the stack to oblivion. Purposefully having a tiny army in the beginning, inviting attack but ready to pop whip a deadly army before real danger arrives. The "poisened archer" a guerilla lure to get melee units out of the action.

But these are minor and terrain/setting specific. What will serve you better in the long run is the idea of defense-never give up, always look to counter attack, delay, confuse enemy coordination. Usually one mistake is not enough to lose you a game, rather many mistakes.

Thermoplea and the Alamo make for good stories but from a Civ4 and realistic perspective all they really proved was that a larger and more well equiped defensive army could have held off the enemy indefinatley if not routed them. While revenge can be a great motivator it won't give you back that library that you don't know what it does when the enemy destroyed it and a monestary. :scan:
 
Also, if you happen to have a coastal city do your best to delay the enemies approach to it so you can build a galley, settler and one of those cool archers and go sail off to somewhere the enemy cannot find you and found a new city (make sure it is coastal). Immediately build another archer and settler and continue, settling the new city somewhere very far away so it is really tough for the enemy to take it out as well. Think of it as a big game of bash-a-mole but with cities instead of furry little creatures.

One thing I am unsure of: I just made a huge blunder as Roosevelt; how do I switch to Babylon and build some of those cool Bowmen? Also, are you actually supposing you can win the game once you've been reduced to a single tundra city (out of 4 before the war), or is the most likely outcome at that point a time loss (yay, I survived - too bad I'm in last place...)? And at what difficulty do you think that overcoming this large a beat-down (especially for someone who doesn't understand what a library does...) is possible and/or desirable. Wouldn't the time spent treading water be better spent with a new game where you can apply the lessons learned from the defeat and try and do better? As an alternative to "cowardly" I propose "realistic, efficient, and fun". Maybe this won't apply to everyone but those who enjoy the challenge of overcoming long-odds don't really need encouragement (and they probably know what a library does).

One last bit of unsolicited advice: Have a look at some of the true articles in this forum that have been rated 4-5 stars by their peers, you could learn a lot about putting together something useful (once you actually have a coherent idea to communicate - I wouldn't call this "what are you smoking" level of incoherency but it definitely could use some work). Lastly, consider the "Strategy & Tips" forum as good place to flesh out ideas since by putting things there you admit that the lack of effort/quality/thoroughness is intentional.
 
once again attacko, you have turned around the way i think about civ. i can report that this was so successful that i managed to beat a stack of two axemen heading towards my city with a single bowman. thank you again. this has allowed me to progress all the way to settler. my military understanding is complete.
 
Another well thought out, and well planned strategy.

I have been trying to improve on one of your other's. I am thinking, what if we go for amphibious warriors? The way I see it... the AI will underestimate your power rating and think you are weak. So, just when it doesn't expect it, BOOM! You land 100 & 1 warriors with amphibious promotion directly into their cities from ships.

I think this is a vast improvement over the amphibious elephant system, because you can build a lot more warriors in the same amount of time than you can build elephants.

The AI shouldn't have a chance against that...
 
amphibeous warriors is theoretically possible, and too- one could purposefully get to combat 2 with the intent of upgrading and trying to get as many amphibeous sword or axe. however, in a recent article Attacko suggested auto promote, (think the article is called "attacko's guide to promotions" )
 
@troy - Lookup the word "sarcasm" in the dictionary. You may also want to check out "satire". I'm not familiar with Attacko's work (ever hear of citations/links) but if you are faithfully copying it then it seems they be satirical in nature.
 
amphibeous warriors is theoretically possible, and too- one could purposefully get to combat 2 with the intent of upgrading and trying to get as many amphibeous sword or axe. however, in a recent article Attacko suggested auto promote, (think the article is called "attacko's guide to promotions" )

with archers against a satck of .. say 6 axemen, just bring 6 workers around the stack and the AI will split its axemen to capture all workers. then you can attack them separatly with your achers (you will need an average 2.5 archer to kill 1 axeman).
so with only 6 worker and 15 archer you can kill the 6 axemen stack of the AI ;)
 
You can also do the same thing with Great-People. I usually try to get 6 GPs early, then use them for lure-bait for just that purpose.

It's funny to watch the AI go after a useless engineer, and then let me kill the axeman the next turn.
 
There could be a "missionary slaughter" theory, declare war, and invade - meanwhile flooding the enemies borders with missionaries that land on non-roaded tiles.
 
anyone else read these just for the responses?

Yup.

They are not melee competitive.

Oh yes, if you listen to Attacko and just bring enough, they will be! Ideally, one for every two strength the enemy unit has:
Warrior: 1
Spearman/Dogsoldier: 2
Axeman/Sword/Vulture/Pikeman: 3
Maceman/Praetorian: 4
Ofcourse, the incan Quechua is a special case, in which you should either bring 5 archers or just a dogsoldier. With Amphibious promotion.

And now, just a second, I am looking for my suicide smilie. This is sick.
 
Also, if you happen to have a coastal city do your best to delay the enemies approach to it so you can build a galley, settler and one of those cool archers and go sail off to somewhere the enemy cannot find you and found a new city (make sure it is coastal). Immediately build another archer and settler and continue, settling the new city somewhere very far away so it is really tough for the enemy to take it out as well. Think of it as a big game of bash-a-mole but with cities instead of furry little creatures.

small piece of advice, make sure you check "require complete kills" in the advanced start-up screen JUST IN CASE your tundra city dies before the fugitive settler can find a place to settle.
 
The first thing to keep in mind is , after you have lost a city or a terrrible blunder has left you in a less than desirable position, the honor of a spirited defense. It is not waiting and slowly getting attacked behind walled cities then reloading- rather quite the opposite- dynamic defensive play set at all instances to launch a counter attack. This is true defense- not a Maginot line- but a Stalingrad.

Hmm. A stalingrad. Yes. Let us have our troops starve and let our people eat wallpaper while we are too stupid, ignorant, and weak to invade; let us get bogged down for weeks in the same city slowly killing ourselves and the enemy.

All attacks have one thing in common. they try to exploit a weakness. In Civ terms that means you when you have not built enough units. One of the best pieces of advice ever written on the forums was by an unknown who suggested to a new player when asked about how to play this game,
"build a bunch of axe. "

I know! I'm going to build 5000000 Warriors and send them against your Mechanized Infantry!
But lets say you teched slowly, no religion, your armies lost every battle, your on tundra with one wheat and a whale with no bronze or horse and your not sure how to play the game or what a library does and an enemy stack of axe just wiped out one of your three cities. Most would quit, reload, or cry home to mama. But should you? Lets look at the real situation. You have Archers.
Babylon/Native American archers are melee competitive. And too remember the power of the resourceless UU civ.

What if you're not Babylon, or Native America, or resource-les? You're sunk. You're using specific examples to make a point about a game with billions, if not trillions, of different computational permutations. Hey! I used big words! I is so smart, i is teh rocket!
Since you may be at a loss in the open field your only alternative is guerilla promotion tactics. Guerilla Bowmen cut off the roads leading to the captured city then whip your other three and have at least 4 archers to every axe. If defense is your weak point select Babylon.
And what about the resource situation? No resources means waiting to catapults, or capturing resources, no big deal. Once again counters to the reloading, cowardly defeatist attitude.

Hey, dumbass! Guerilla sucks if you don't have hills! And if you're in the middle of the tundra, where are you going to find them? How will you have time to build these things in a horsehockey ice city?! Wheat doesn't grow in the tundra!

"But i need specific tactics that work!" And there are some, allowing yourself to be invaded and catapulting the stack to oblivion. Purposefully having a tiny army in the beginning, inviting attack but ready to pop whip a deadly army before real danger arrives. The "poisened archer" a guerilla lure to get melee units out of the action.

This sucks. Yeah, poprushing works....to an extent. Building 2 units from every city isn't going to help if the enemy can overrun you in 5 turns.
But these are minor and terrain/setting specific. What will serve you better in the long run is the idea of defense-never give up, always look to counter attack, delay, confuse enemy coordination. Usually one mistake is not enough to lose you a game, rather many mistakes.

Never give up, even if you're at one tundra city! You can still win! As long as the RNG Gods are great!
Thermoplea and the Alamo make for good stories but from a Civ4 and realistic perspective all they really proved was that a larger and more well equiped defensive army could have held off the enemy indefinatley if not routed them. While revenge can be a great motivator it won't give you back that library that you don't know what it does when the enemy destroyed it and a monestary. :scan:

Thermopylae: tiny army of spartans who suicided themselves and lost.

Alamo: tiny army of Texans who suicided themselves and lost.

See the difference? Oh wait..there is one.

This is a piece of trash.
 
What if you're not Babylon, or Native America, or resource-les? You're sunk. You're using specific examples to make a point about a game with billions, if not trillions, of different computational permutations. Hey! I used big words! I is so smart, i is teh rocket!

Just bring moar. Moar archers will solve this problem.

Hey, dumbass! Guerilla sucks if you don't have hills! And if you're in the middle of the tundra, where are you going to find them? How will you have time to build these things in a horsehockey ice city?! Wheat doesn't grow in the tundra!

There are tundra hills in the game. Settle on one, and you're safe.

Oh, and ofcourse wheat doesn't grow in tundra, but you can use fish, clams, crabs or deer. Or you can play the weird mapscript with plains oasises, floodplain rice, and tundra wheat.

Or you can play Boreal. That way, your enemy will be as limited as you are since everything will be tundra. In fact, I believe we should convince Attacko to write a guide to winning on this maptype on settler

This sucks. Yeah, poprushing works....to an extent. Building 2 units from every city isn't going to help if the enemy can overrun you in 5 turns.

Or is it? 2 units and one city amounst to five warweariness and since you are playing on settler, the AI has no WW penalties. So with just twenty cities lost this way, you will have the AI at 100 WW! Even more if you actually kill the AI. The important strategy here is to settle new cities constantly, and stay in cultural dominant areas (or the AI will be able to use the same tactic against you!). Again, Attacko would have to write a guide on this for it to become as clearstated and obvious as it could be.

Never give up, even if you're at one tundra city! You can still win! As long as the RNG Gods are great!

True. Just consider it an OCC. You wouldn't quit an OCC with only city left, would you? Ofcourse not! And if that city is a tundra island in the polar ice, the enemy will just have a harder time finding you. Eventually, the 9 :commerce: and 1 :hammers: from the city will enable you to engage in an amphibious attack. Since you will probably lack ivory, use warriors. Be sure to promote them as Obsolete states, with Amphibious.

Thermopylae: tiny army of spartans who suicided themselves and lost.

Alamo: tiny army of Texans who suicided themselves and lost.

See the difference? Oh wait..there is one.

This is a piece of trash.

O RLY? :lol::p
 
appreciate all the comments and suggestions. i am looking for "Attacko's System to Multiplayer Domination" or something like that. I read just a little bit and can remember a few things like "play against young inexperienced players and pretend you are too then kill them". (in the chat room i think your suppossed to talk about how you like "builder" games to lure in victems.
 
Back
Top Bottom