"Attacko's -What is "Strategy"

[champ82]

"Play the map"- i like this one. Play the grid the action is taking place upon. I suggest "play the game" and you may win -not because of the "map" rather in spite of the map. Again- a nonsensical phrase- what do you mean- take off all units and look at tiles?
Oh- i get it- i just am to stupid to understand what you really mean or are trying to say. Sorry.

I don’t buy your feigned ignorance for 2 seconds.

Two EMTs (or detectives, or criminals, or whatever) are talking shop…it occurs to them that a bystander, or a new recruit doesn’t understand the lingo.

Attacko: We should stop using the lingo entirely. We are snobs and elitists.
champ82: ? Or…we could just explain what we mean and move on.

If Attacko is bored with single player, or is just out for a laugh that’s fine.

But playing the map (as opposed to leader traits, UUs and UBs) is sound advice. Playing the map just means ‘capitalize on what’s around you.’

Pretty sure Romel, Bruce Lee and McArther played the map dude.

When your pal (and mine) Rorschach realized he got set up what, what did he do? He went through the cupboards, made some weapons and played the map to his best ability. Rorschach always played the map.

 

[katipunero]

But look at how many posts some people have! Type animal husbandry bronze working the great lighthouse representation universal suffrage 500 times…it’ll get old.

Take a look at DMOC's walkthroughs, acronyms are almost never used if so only sparingly. Besides you only research a tech or build a wonder once so you don't have to type these things again and again in your "walkthrough". If indeed a person's intention was to provide a glimpse of how he or she plays the game and that same person took the trouble of starting a thread about it, taking screenshots here and there, I don't see how spelling things out would even be a problem.

Yes, this is the internet and people are free to use acronyms and should not be faulted for it. But threads that purport to help people out in their games should keep things more, err well, luminous. Unless of course, quoting TroytheFace, these threads are meant for people who already know the game giving advice to people who already know the game.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Personally, when I want to make a GPF (great people farm), I always look at the BFC OFC (of the city). If I AR (already researched) AH, Agr and Alpha, I look for 2 food resources. If I have CS, then I can CI (chain irrigate) tiles next to my GPF, which will help me generate GPP. Then I try to build a Library, but I TDB (typically don't bother) building MGB in my GPF.

GL can also BQB (be quite beneficial). You MAC (might also consider) using CS for more GP in your GPF.

 

[Groogaroo]

Of course it does- - think about it- if someone is really trying to help and offer advice wouldn't they be as clear as possible? If you were explaining something to your child would you use nonsensical lingo?

Oh my! Troy, your actually starting to post stuff that I agree with! I'm not a huge fan of all the abbreviations and acronyms. I can see how they can be really confusing to people new to the boards.

 

[troytheface]

"But playing the map (as opposed to leader traits, UUs and UBs) is sound advice. Playing the map just means ‘capitalize on what’s around you.’"

Let me get this straight. "Play the map" means build a pasture on a horse resource that is near. "capitalize on what’s around you.’"

I suggest that if someone is struggling with the aspect of building a pasture on a horse resource then "play the map" may be a bit abstract for them.

So..."build a pasture on a horse" (play the map) is "sound advice"? maybe. for idiots.

Personally i think advice on attacking and defending in relation to tiles would be more like "don't attack across rivers against enemy units
on a forested hill as they get defense bonuses. (unless you have the "Amphibeous" promotion which allows for no penalty when attacking
across rivers or from a ship on a water tile"

you mention tiles, the kind of tiles, defense, attack, promotions, you know - strategy

but ok, "play the map" says it all.

Pretty sure Romel, Bruce Lee and McArther played the map dude.

good examples- Rommell- the desert fox- lost in the desert.
(in chess the new grandmaster always spoke of the prowess of the guys they kicked the crap out of- fischer- "Spassky was the best ever") Patton and Montgomery had plenty of kudos to give to Rommell- the guy they creamed

Bruce Lee- he was really tough, brain hemmerage at like 40. How about instead of pumping yourself up to be mighty man relax a bit and your brain won't explode. Karate guys in my experience have always been scared wimpy types. A big mean fat beer hall slob could have kicked the hell out of bruce the "actor"- karate guys (sorry - kung fu guys- he used a woman's form of fighting by the way ) - at any rate karate guys always yap about how its "spiritual" and an "art" while those in the audience watching "actors" are just waiting for the fighting part.
If they were really "spiritual" and "peaceful" there are plenty of religions to join- but no- i am a peaceful spiritual man so i will join the learn how to fight religion.
Here's a tip- get a glock or something and you don't have to yell or get close - or talk about chakras and karma (that baby that got run over was a real #%^$$- karma man)

Mccauther- Fired- why? he wanted to "play the map" (china) and someone said "well starting ww3
may not be a good idea." Island hopping? we had radar! and nukes on the way, and pressurized high flying can't get to airplanes coming up. A really good general would have said- "well the japanese can't invade- they said it themselves (some japanese gen) -we have radar-we can see them coming, they want us to end the war early because they are hoping not to win but to wear down the will to fight- how about we watch them for a couple years then drop atomic bombs on their dumb cities- and take over their new ones that we let them build up so we get better spoils of war" And we lose...what? a couple of bases in the pacific?

But lets take Hannibal- he went over mountains that killed his elephants and a good portion of his men. Later came down, without bronze from them hills and.. he won - in spite of the map

Next time someone has a question on how to improve thier game the best advice (sound advice)
is to tell them to build on resources. Oh, wait, no one would ever say that- to simple- say "play the map"- that has a strategical ring to it.

Where was I - oh yeah thanks for the comments-this is an image of ... i don't know yet because i am grabbing a screen shot and doing something with it for the sake of unity.

 

[Lone Wolf]

"Play the map" is indeed a meaningless phrase.

Overall, it's a rare, but a memorable case that an Attacko thread generates serious responses.

 

[mercury529]

Bruce Lee- he was really tough, brain hemmerage at like 40. How about instead of pumping yourself up to be mighty man relax a bit and your brain won't explode. Karate guys in my experience have always been scared wimpy types. A fat beer hall slob could have kicked the hell out of bruce the "actor"- karate guys (sorry - kung fu guys- he used a woman's form of fighting by the way ) - at any rate karate guys always yap about how its "spiritual" and an "art" while those in the audience watching "actors" are just waiting for the fighting part.
If they were really "spiritual" and "peaceful" there are plenty of religions to join- but no- i am a peaceful spiritual man so i will join the learn how to fight religion.
Here's a tip- get a glock or something and you don't have to yell or get close - or talk about chakras and karma (that baby that got run over was a real #%^$$- karma man)

Did you really just make fun of a guy whose brand of karate is known as the "The Way of the Intercepting Fist"? That sounds like the kind of thing Attacko should love.

 

[champ82]

But lets take Hannibal- he went over mountains that killed his elephants and a good portion of his men. Later came down, without bronze from them hills and.. he won - in spite of the map

Yeah that’s right, pretty sure the Carthaginians won that one.

Anyhow, your responses were hilarious.

“Play the map” is vague and useless on it’s own. But it is a piece of sound, reactionary advice to some people’s tendencies to play traits or UU or UB (which can be in some instances be the right thing to do.) It is often many people’s tendencies to plan a Keshik rush in 4000 BC before they even know if they have horses. Telling a player like this to play the map may be trite, but it means something . Is it a vague and simple instruction? Yes. Is it the most innovative thing in the world to say? No. It’s the equivalent of “Football is a game of inches” or “Keep your eye on the ball” for baseball. Insultingly obvious to some – key platitude to repeat to beginners.

Building cities on resources is also playing the map. Building your first city in the desert is an unorthodox tactic of playing the map.

Often times clichés are vague but still helpful. Another platitude that gets repeated here a lot - “It’s situational.” This one is vague and on it’s own useless. But when someone asks “should I build the great lighthouse?” without giving any more information, then it is the correct answer, however lacking it may be.

So are platitudes the end-all-be all-of strategy? No. Are they there for a reason? Yes.

 

[budweiser]

Hannibal won?!?

He failed. He never took Rome. A classic example of winning all the battles yet losing the war.

I'm pretty sure what happened was Rome sailed a galley over to Carthage and then then Carthager resigned.

 

[champ82]

Personally i think advice on attacking and defending in relation to tiles would be more like "don't attack across rivers against enemy units
on a forested hill as they get defense bonuses. (unless you have the "Amphibeous" promotion which allows for no penalty when attacking
across rivers or from a ship on a water tile"

I like how in TroytheFace’s world “play the map” is rage inducing obvious but this advice isn’t.

 

[champ82]

Fact – Civilization IV Beyond The Sword is a strategy game that can be played dynamically and with a heavy military bent on multi-player.

Fact – Civilization IV Beyond The Sword is a strategy game that also deals with more mundane domestic choices, especially in single player, none of which are inherently superior and are worthy of discussion on online forums.

Fact – Acronyms save time. Every modern great general used them.

Fact – If a child over heard me use the acronym “FBI” “USA” “CIA” and started crying because they didn’t know what they meant, or they just thought acronyms were tacky, I would tell them what they meant and if they kept on crying about it, I wouldn't give a s##t.

This is the superior.

 

[troytheface]

In the Land of the Blind the One Eyed Man Would be Committed


"Yeah that’s right, pretty sure the Carthaginians won that one"

Yes, called the battle of Cannae-one of the most famous battles in history.
think it killed more men then the atomic bomb. I wrote a few threads on the validity of a city build mimicking or formulating new tactical battle formations.

this is what was written- "he went over mountains that killed his elephants and a good portion of his men. Later came down, without bronze from them hills and.. he won "

Trebbia? Cannae-...the assumption that - no - he eventually lost 5 years or whatever later after being recalled to Africa hardly is indictative of "he went over mountains.....and won"

Which leads to another point- people read what they want to see- and "know"

"I like how in TroytheFace’s world “play the map” is rage inducing obvious but this advice isn’t."

I drove to the quicky mart to get some smokes after i read this, I asked the guy there this question-

"suppose i was trying to explain a computer game that had these tiles, squares, actually and in this game you build cities and armies and stuff,"

i will now give you advice on how to play this game and ask which you might think may be more helpful- here is advice 1- "play the map"

here is advice 2- "don't attack across rivers against enemy units
on a forested hill as they get defense bonuses. (unless you have the "Amphibeous" promotion which allows for no penalty when attacking across rivers or from a ship on a water tile"

He laughed, and said - of course the second one.

i guess that kinda answers the question for me. but what do i know- i mean after all-
this board has its own reality which many think is actually reality

I walk into a diabetes doctors office and every patient in the waiting room was fat. Not 90 percent of them - all of them. I am not a doctor, however, i have eyes, - it seems like i could have said hey doctor, they are all fat.
hey - everyone- lose weight you may not have to take pills and crap. Am i blind? does no one say the obvious anymore? and if they do are they told they are crazy and its this or that so someone can benefit somehow? (may be the american way- facist insanity- new heros of tommorrow)

Likewise with Civ4 and many strategy articles. Encapsulated- stupidity sinks in, decay. New opinion, fresh blood, they keep dementia at bay for homogenous groups.
Articles sound the same, "TNG Diety Super Fest" "Sacred Band Monarch Club", they read the same, the stupid advice remains stupid.

Careful here- i referenced giving advice as if you were talking to your child- but that also means not talking down to them.

This is a screenshot of elephants that reminds me of diabetes patients and because elephants never forget and are fat and i feel sorry for anyone fat that can't forget-
remembering is easy- they have books and lessons on how to improve it- but forgetting? no books on that.

"it is not what we don't know that is the problem- it is that which we think we know that is not so" Asimov? Asimov or Claus Von Bulow before he changed his wife out to keep his thoughts fresh.

 

[champ82]

Language evolves. Same interests and professions breed jargon.

The forum has many uses. One is for people who know very little about the game to learn more. Another is for people who know some to bounce ideas off of each other. It is natural and unavoidable for people who talk shop to use terms not everyone knows.

Does using terms like “AH” and “BFC” prove that you know more about the game’s fundamentals than people who don’t? No. Could it be that some people use these acronyms to show off in vain needlessly? Most likely this is true.

Instructors shouldn’t use jargon without explaining it when training people brand new to whatever craft, profession or hobby is in question, this I agree with you on.

I don’t talk to the man at the quickie mart about Civ and I wouldn’t expect him to know what a BFC is. If he asked me and was interested in the fundamentals of Civ I wouldn’t use jargon or platitudes if I were explaining it to him, but otherwise, no harm no foul.

You can’t have it both ways. On one hand you are suggesting the term “playing the map” is too simple…rather it is advice only for idiots. Then you point out that one with no Civ experience wouldn’t even know what it means…implying that it would be suitable for a Civ 201 course rather than a Civ 101 course.

But I guess that’s just me being a university elitist.

Fact – Lawyers and Doctors, love them or hate them, learn cool Latin words most of us don’t with no strict equivalent in English.

Fact – My great grandfather, champ79, singlehandedly crushed the skulls of any twerp who had the audacity to spell the word gray “grey” or center “centre” while in the USA in the early 20th century. Some have called him an insane American fascist. But I know in my heart he was a great man. When my grandfather, champ80, acted insolent, he met such insolence with sternness. Such is the way of champ shintoism.

 

[champ82]

delete

 

[Bostock]

"When I was 8 or 9 years old, I acquired a split beaver magazine. You can imagine my disappointment when, upon examination of the photos with a microscope, I found that all I could see was dots."

- the PD

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The best possibly strategy is to humiliate your opponent by cherry tapping. Settle accordingly.

 

[Nilmerf]

"War is a continuation of politics by other means."
-Carl von Clausewitz

In the 19th Century, Clausewitz revolutionized the realm of military strategy. He was the first to actually define what war was. In the 21st Century, Attacko writes his treatise, "What is Strategy?" with an immediate definition of the term therein.

For Clausewitz, war was unpredictable. He even coined the term "fog of war", which we see represented in nearly all serious strategy games today. For Attacko, a preconceived strategy is useless, unless of course it involves building a barracks first.

Finally, it should be observed that the strategic defensive, though it is stronger than the offensive, should serve only to win the first important successes. If these are won and peace does not follow immediately, we can gain further successes only through the offensive. For if we remain continually on the defensive, we run the great risk of always waging war at our own expense. This no state can endure indefinitely. If it submits to the blows of its adversary without ever striking back, it will very likely become exhausted and succumb. We must begin, therefore, using the defensive, so as to end more successfully by the offensive.

Fact- Robert E. Lee gambled by taking his army into Pennsylvania. The cottage builders would attest that this was foolish strategy, but in reality it was the only way he could have achieved victory.

The evidence is clear.

 

[champ82]

Fact- Robert E. Lee gambled by taking his army into Pennsylvania. The cottage builders would attest that this was foolish strategy, but in reality it was the only way he could have achieved victory.

The evidence is clear.

Fact - The Union won this war mostly by engaging in "boring" activities (building enough miles of railroad with ample non-automated workers) and refraining from what the south deemed as "fun" activities (moonshine, duels, illiteracy.)

 

[troytheface]

delete

 

[troytheface]

Habit, Addiction, Habit


I was talking to a pain doctor and after he precribed methodone i asked if it was addictive. he said "there is no such thing- it is all Habit."

reminded me of a southpark episode when stan's father thought alcholoism was a "disease" so he wrapped himself in a blanket with beer in front of him and coughed and stuff.

However, in spite of Habit- I suggest that originality is all around. but being original it is unrecognizable.

it's really not hard- let me give it a whirl- i will swing my chair around and look at the wooden floor....

ok, a yellowish metal sphere with the scent of crackers and tulips that has four hairs sticking out of the bottom and floating around 2 feet above the floor casting a transparent blueish colored shadow and with, what looks like thin french fry looking creatures with lion like faces playing a game of what looks like a cross between tennis and frisbie singing "Hail to the queen"

that was easy.

Leonardo Da Vinci slept 20 minutes after working about 3 hours and this routine
landed him about 10 years of extra waking life.
Of course the rest of us can't do that because business has certain hours and it is important for people to have no 10 years of extra life because its not good for businessman that make money off of you following their routine which you now prefer- and would actually defend.

where was i? oh yeah Claus Von Bulow and defense. (i think he got caught killing his wife because he did not change up his methods)

..."the great defensive masters, Stienitz, Lasker, Casablanca, Botvinick, Petrosian,
were world champions for 80 of the last 110 years"-"the art of defense in chess-"-Andrew Soltis

i agree that counterattack is the goal of any defensive master and - wait, i wasn't talking about this i was talking about Habit.

Habit- makes us dumb- and since i am a people too, you can take that private thought of "who does this guy think he is" and blow it out your #$%%^&.

Same strategies, same builds, same game times same whatever- habit- makes ya dumb

This is a screenshot of workers building cottages and listening to advice on here and actually following it because those that are giving it are smart and good and wise and stuff. I think the directive is to work from 8- 5 , build cottages and then die at 65.