Augstone

[jatamixx]

Please enjoy a stone oriented Augustus deity fractal game!

XD​

 

[Fish Man]

Spoiler :

DON'T SIP you will kill a fishy and there's not a lot of food on this map. Also terrible start for mids, China during the Great Leap Forward has more food than this cap.

 

[as2w]

Spoiler :

Took a crack at this one. In fact, I'm running it again as my first go was going into the ground very quickly. I settled 2N1E of starting position on the GH. It gives me a hill for defense as well as both sheep and cows in BFC. Initial research was AG>>AH>>BW. Quickly ran into Brennus and Sitting Bull. I've read a number of times recently in the merit of stealing workers to slow the AI and give yourself a bit of a boost. So I stole 2 workers from Sitting Bull in consecutive turns. Could never get him to agree to peace or even a cease fire. So that fairly well tanked anything that I did have going for me. So is it best not to steal workers from him as you can't get out of war?

With the research order and the lack of food, wasn't able to get first settler out until turn 37. That seems way too long based on all of the advice I read on the forum. My build order was warrior>>worker>>warrior>>settler. Note: I put turns into a warrior until city grew to size 2 then switched immediately to worker. If I had counted on stealing the workers, I could have skipped building one altogether. Is that a reasonable option? Not to avoid building altogether, but delaying the build if stealing a worker works.

Found that with my research order, workers were sitting waiting for BW to come in. So I think that BW needs to come sooner. With the lack of food, it will make whipping workers and settlers more difficult. However with the amount of trees, I can chop them out. Is this a wise approach? More specifically, is there merit in going BW first? The food tiles that I need improved require AH. And either I tech Ag for 9 turns or Hunting for 6 to get there. If I go Ag, it takes longer to get what I need in order to improve the tiles. If I go hunting, I lack the ability to irrigate water side tiles until a bit later. Is the 3 turn savings to get to AH faster worth it? I'm leaning towards 'no', but I'd love some input from the experts.

 

[AcaMetis]

Spoiler :

Generally speaking you want to steal workers either when Aggressive AI is on (it makes AIs agree to cease fires much more readily) or you're next to someone who's really non-threatening like Gandhi. Otherwise, as you've noticed, you easily find yourself in a war that just goes on for far too long.

Incidentally, I would especially recommend against stealing workers from Sitting Bull in particular, because he's got both level 3 Pro Archers (UB) and resourceless axes (UU). It's just the worst combination to have to deal with early on, and it doesn't get much better later either when half your empire's water supply mysteriously gets poisoned every other turn.

 

[as2w]

Thanks for the response @AcaMetis. So since he is so close, do I need to plan on an early rush of some sort? HAs are a viable option if I can get enough cities started. I'm guessing I can get 4 or 5 fairly quickly if I chop the settlers rather than settle them. I'm concerned about how close he is at this stage of the early game.

 

[AcaMetis]

Spoiler :

I doubt it's going to be necessary given the amount of forests you've got with an IMP leader, just don't be afraid to chop everything into settlers/workers if you're not going to need them for something else (like Mids or an army). Whether it's the right play depends on a number of factors. Mainly the "it's literally the last option I've got left" factor.

 

[ArchGhost]

Spoiler :

So I stole 2 workers from Sitting Bull in consecutive turns. Could never get him to agree to peace or even a cease fire. So that fairly well tanked anything that I did have going for me. So is it best not to steal workers from him as you can't get out of war?

Tip: on higher levels the AIs start with more power rating and are less likely to give cease fires early on . It may depend on the AI personality (not sure) but I've never seen an AI immediately peace out after ONLY worker steal on Immortal+.

To remedy this you need to either gain some war success or increase your relative power to them. Killing units is a good way, and starting at Emperor (i think) they get a scout as well as a worker -- a neat trick is to take the worker, then kill the scout, often by shadowing it beforehand, for instant ceasefire.

You can also gain some better war tech (Archery, BW, etc) which will increase your soldier count, spam some units, or both, though this is slower.

Also settling more cities can work. Not sure how/if that actually affects power comparison, but I have seen it work in an AZ game. In a last ditch effort you can give them a city for peace, they'll almost always accept this, so that's a way out if he's about to kill you or something.

By the way, how do I load a save file in a different difficulty setting? Do I move it to WB folder and run it as a scenario? Just fought with my computer for about 30 minutes to get to where I could actually open posted saves on the forum other than NC, haha. I'll give it a shot for the practice on Deity if I have to though.

 

[krikav]

You have to load the game from the savefile, then save it as a wb-file, then start a scenario from that wb-file.

 

[AcaMetis]

Remember that after starting the "scenario" that you'll need to go into WB and give the barbs whatever techs they need for your chosen difficulty level (if any), as well as make sure every AI has their normal crew of starting units for your chosen difficulty. AIs will retain the starting units they got from the map's initial difficulty level, so if that changes you'll need to WB in/out some stuff to fix it if you change it.

 

[ArchGhost]

okay, thank you both kindly.

I did have a quick go at this as was originally posted

Spoiler :

after an initial try, next time expanded rapidly to block SB since he settled up against my capitol my first play (!). I got when he started to wonder whore and flip my cities so I quit.


"What border cities?" --Sitting Bull

Final note

Spoiler :

this map is evil. Brennus has so much land all to himself it isn't funny. Time to really lick Celtic boot?

 

[Gumbolt]

Hmmmm

Spoiler Thought :

Stealing from Sittingbull is a bad idea. His UU is resourceless. You would need archers to stop them. Or chariots. He would likely spam metal units too.

Land here is very poor. You will get blocked in by SB unless you head west for 3 turns.

Settling near the cow/sheep is horrible as you need 2 techs to make them useful. 10 turns of worker inactivity. UNless you go marble first? Which only slows down expansion.

Heading west for 3 turns gets you to gold/pigs. Even then I would go settler first to ensure you grab the best spots nearby to block SB.

Ultimately you will get blocked in here and be pretty much forced into a certain way of playng this map. Early war is almost impossible here. Chariots against a protective AI is bad. Especially when AI are so quick to IW.

Securing land here is the biggest issue.

 

[Fippy]

Great map, masonry - tgw - BW - chopping settlers (and workers) imo.

Spoiler :

Tgw is crucial for settling & blocking land for ourselves north, without barb troubles.
Teched Agri after BW, for wet corn which should be my first city.
Tech speed will drop drastically, but i like how we can use everything that Augi has to offer (Ind tgw, mining, IMP for small city settler blocking)

 

[ArchGhost]

Very nice Fippy! GW and a settler that quick, sheesh. I'm so glad I can open saves now and look closer, heh.

Spoiler :

I never even thought of the great wall, though I was mostly fine with 3 units up North (2 for fogbust, 1 for killing run-by archers) No need to worry about the West or South after they get their third cities in my game.

I also did SiP Agri > AH and got 2 settlers T33/T40 (only 2 idle worker turns, not sure where Gumbolt adds up 10 on SiP?), with 7t build option on every one after that. I also took the river corn as my first expansion spot, though since Sitting Bull built Henge there was no hope of controlling anything across the river. Though seeing others' and especially your game ignoring early BW (I went wheel next) seems like major misplay and I 'll have to try it again.

 

[AcaMetis]

Spoiler :

Don't be afraid of going Hunting -> AH if you've got nothing that needs to be farmed nearby. Fewer turns spend researching and early access to Archery, if you need it. As for ignoring early BW, as you noted, definitely not the right play this map. You've got an IND/IMP leader who starts with Mining, Stone and has a capitol with 10+ forests in BFC. That's your cue to go for an early BW.

 

[ArchGhost]

Spoiler :

Don't be afraid of going Hunting -> AH if you've got nothing that needs to be farmed nearby. Fewer turns spend researching and early access to Archery, if you need it. As for ignoring early BW, as you noted, definitely not the right play this map. You've got an IND/IMP leader who starts with Mining, Stone and has a capitol with 10+ forests in BFC. That's your cue to go for an early BW.

Spoiler :

I had considered Hunting but I needed to grow to size 2 faster in my head for my plan, and the worker would be idle either way until AH without a farm or road to build. The holding research 5t trick saved a turn on Agri since I was able to meet Brennus and SB back to back, pretty cool. Deity handicap techs on AIs good for something!

Delaying BW was bad, yeah....well it was more of not thinking the GW would factor that much + wanting Mids failgold later and weak whipping capitol. And a fair amount of speculative hammer counting.

Even without BW, IMP trait + 3 AH resources (there's horse 2E as it turns out) got cities blocking Sitting Butthole founded on turns 36 and 41/42 (depended on whether I would stop to Pasture over Farmed Sheep after Horse/CoW roads, or road to 2nd city spot and ignore the sheep) and seeing the Horse I opted to get a Chariot to deal with the tundra barbs going so Wheel instead of BW. IMP lets this start 9 turn settlers at 2 pop (7t with the horse+cow on the second) and I did that for 2 settlers twice in a row, grew on a Chariot (which will hit size 3 with or without Sheep pasture), and then worker #2 at 3 pop. I also snuck a warrior in there somewhere, the hammers on this start are crazy. My follow up was very strong productively (I got Mids + 8 cites by 500BC) and only stagnated by a lack of workers really to develop cottages fast enough.

I mean, I know it's not right because it didn't work, haha, but I thought I was using what AC had fairly well. Completing the Mids was a huge mistake too, ~450g down the drain and I couldn't get to Aes/Alpha

Fippy's choice of GW was brilliant as it sidesteps the whole barb consideration while still grabbing fast IMP settlers. Even settling 2E for fish and going BW first is only a little faster (T38 for third city, but no GW). Kicking myself a bit for dismissing it just because "pshh, early wonder."

I'm just sitting here trying to work out where she scrounged those extra 2 hammers for the T36 settler and still looking, heh.

 

[Fish Man]

Augustus took one look at this ugly start and decided he needed to get HIGH to deal with this mess of a map. Thus begins the saga of Augustoned the Stoned .

Spoiler :

"My lord, we are ready to settle. Where should we place our first city? On the spot, or on top of the stone for the extra hammer?"

"Dude, there's like, no food for a hundred miles in every direction. That's...that's no place for a cap. Let's wander randomly until we find someplace better!"

"I...but..."

"Don't worry man. It's gonna be fiiiiine."

3 turns later

"Huh, that turned out...better than expected."

"See, I told you, it's no problem. Gosh, why do I have advisers around anyways."

After first settler is completed:

"My lord, our first settler is done. Where should we send him? To the stone and sheep? Up north, where there are some pigs and wine?"

"I don't like this horsehockyting Bull dude. Let's put it niiiice and snug right up his borders. See how he likes that."

"You cannot be serious! The Native Americans have dog soldiers and archers! If we are to provoke a war at this point there is no way we can survive!"

"Just...chill, dude. He hates that Brennus guy a lot more. We cool, man, we cool."

A couple of turns later

"Your next several city spots seem to be more...sane. But the Native Americans just stole our first ring pigs from Antium. Surely we should build a monument there for a border pop? Or perhaps a library."

"You're, like, not being creative enough man. There's something better we can build there that's, like, a library but cheaper."

"What do you mean?"

"Get with the times! I'm talking about building The Great Wall for the +2/turn! It's half as expensive as a library with stone and IND."

"You're building...The Great Wall. For a border pop."

"Yes."

"...I have no words."

"Oh, and you know what else I'm gonna do for a border pop? Chop out the mids! Great way to use all those forests, won't you agree?"

"...Why do I bother with you."

Next time on the adventures of Augustoned: phant madness!

 

[Fippy]

2 Settlers by t40 is certainly good too, Archghost
I think it's a special case for tgw yup, with both stone and IND hammer costs are only 50 or ~3 warriors.
Barbs vs. warriors will usually go well if there's only 1 direction they spawn from, but i had games that took a bad turn with stuff like 2 warriors in a good def posi are defeated by 1 barb archer at good odds (or so you thought..).

Maybe stone could be farmed first if going Agri - AH?
Interesting question which works best, sheep farm would be replaced rather soon, and going hunting first should delay AH improvements by only few turns.

 

[shakabrade]

Hammer cost for TGW with ind and stone is actually 60 . Still dirt cheap for 3000 espionage points with close neighbours. That is like 10 technologies stolen. It is in good synnergy with mindles REX. Just need to make sure that you tech alphabet. I would avoid polluting gpp from TGW.

 

[ArchGhost]

@Undefeatable Bold!

Maybe stone could be farmed first if going Agri - AH?
Interesting question which works best, sheep farm would be replaced rather soon, and going hunting first should delay AH improvements by only few turns

Spoiler :

I'm sure either could be argued, since there's Ivory nearby to utilize with Hunting which is a decent production tile and +1 happy, and Archery is quick after that for defense, yup yup. It was a question of follow up to me. Agri instead of Hunting meant Pottery faster, Wheel was gonna be there no matter what for city hookups and because I found horse at AH.

Chariots sort of make the Masonry/GW moot concerning barbs except the first couple .I made sure to take fights only in Crossing River + Forest spots until my 1st Chariot, and SB was helping a lot...but yeah you can get unlucky too. I would have definitely always played it this way if we were not for the river stone not requiring roads, heh. I don't really like early wonders much and would have written it off entirely if I had to road it too.

I also had a bit of flexibility doing that, such as farming stone vs. sheep as you point out, or I could even just road to the 3rd city spot instead of pasturing over it right away. In the context of wanting to block spots from SB as fast as possible, farming the sheep and roading first won out since I could grow to 3 without a pasture on it.

 

[Fish Man]

Augustoned stones someone to death (with elephants).

Spoiler :

"My lord, what should we research after writing?"

"We have elephants, might as well use them!"

"I do not think it is wise to take on CG3 archers. We have neither the strength nor the numbers!"

"Well, you're forgetting one thing."

"...I'm afraid to ask."

"Police state 2-pop whips, with pyramids! We're doin' this, folks! Speaking of which, I think it's time for a change of clothes..."

(Yes, this is RTW Mussolini, which is actually just a reskinned Augustus. It works out perfectly in every way.)

"...My lord, no offense, but you look ****ing ridiculous in that outfit!"

"Nonsense, I look fabulous."

One splendid little war later...

"See, what did I tell you, not a problem at all!"

"...You just lost almost all your catapults during that war! How are you going to besiege your next target?"

"Don't worry. I have...plans...for Brennus ."

To be continued...

*Note - I didn't finish off SB so that Shaka and Brennus would have someone to hate and wail on. Auggy may be blazin' it but he ain't stupid.