Australia Votes

Kevin07 or Jonhy?


  • Total voters
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Ball Lightning

www.sporedum.net
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Apr 2, 2006
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Thunderstorm, Melbourne, Australia
(please vote for who YOU want to win)


As we Australians come around once again to vote for our leaders, debates rage and trickery is everywhere.

Who do you think is going to win?

Johny Howard, hated by the generation x, environmentalist and unions.

or

Kevin07 (rudd), hated by business and the wealthy



And why do you think they are and why do you vote for them.

Poll coming soon.
 
Rudd said he's economically conservative. Interesting, the environment/climate change is topping or near the top for a lot of polls regarding important election issues. I'm so proud of my fellow Aussies.

And the Greens are #3 party!!
 
Labour. Howards Workplace reforms must be repealed

I almost could've voted in this election (if it was called after December)
 
Labour. Howards Workplace reforms must be repealed

I almost could've voted in this election (if it was called after December)

Child, are you doing your HSC next week? Good luck!

The workplace reforms are a MAJOR issue and would probably win Rudd the election. I'm still trying to decide between him and the Greens.
 
Labour. Howards Workplace reforms must be repealed

I almost could've voted in this election (if it was called after December)

Well then I must say that that the economy will not be performing as well as it has under these reforms. How far do want the repealed back to?
 
This Friday in fact, English, paper 1. I hope I am ready for the first HSC exam
 
Can anyone give us unbiased info on the parties, I have never heard of any of these.

Seconded.


In any case from the names and comparisons with other partys having those names ( I am only referencing the U.k. , U.S. , Mexico because those are the only ones I know of)

I am gonna say Greens.
 
The first thing to remember is that Liberal = conservatives in Australian politics.

The Liberal Party Coalition is a coalition between the Liberals and the Nationals, who have been in power since 1996 (that's longer than Thatcher, yo). The Liberals are by a wide margin the senior partner, and they are a chimeric mixture of arch-Tories and small-l liberals (called "dries" and "wets" in the parlance of the times), with the Tories now in absolute control. They've always been the more business-friendly of the two parties, they absolutely LOATHE unions, and the religious right's influence is also growing in the party, much to the disdain of more economically minded Liberals. Likewise, their youth arm is a mixture of hardcore libertarians and borderline fascists and almost to a person, they are maladjusted weirdos and the butts of endless jokes.

The Liberals' strengths are usually stated as economic management and security, which I think simultaneously illustrates all the areas that they're found pretty wanting.

PM John Howard is proud of being the most conservative prime minister we've ever had, to the extent that former Liberal Prime Minister Malcom Fraser (1975-83) is a pariah from the party, frequently critical of their actions, and better friends with his former Labour Party nemesis Gough Whitlam than his own party.

The National Party is the junior member of the coalition, theoretically representative of rural interests (particularly wealthier rural interests, historically) but pretty spineless when push-comes-to-shove, because they owe their continued existance to the Liberals not competing against them in designated rural seats. They're far less free market committed than the Liberals, often derisively called Agrarian Socialists. Their stronghold is Queensland and they have very conservative social values everywhere they have any influence, though I understand that their almost nonexistant West Australian arm supports gay marriage. The Nationals pretty consistantly lose one parliamentary seat an election and are a dwindling force in national politics.

Labor is the opposition, who have been in the political wilderness since 1996, attributable to multiple factors, not least of which is Howard's sheer political cunning and Labours lacklustre leadership choices. Additionally, like Fabian Socialist parties worldwide, they're suffering an ongoing identity crisis in the face of neoliberalism and the New Left. They were traditionally the working class party as the name implies, and I believe the Queensland Labor Party was the world's first Labor government. They were more Catholic than Protestant back when that was a meaningful social division, and even today union membership is a must for navigating their byzantine factional politics. Naturally, they're more Social Democratic than the Liberals, though these days not by much, and in fact a raft of almost Thatcherite reforms were instituted by the last Labour government between 1983 and 1996 (yielding economic benefits that the Liberals have been quick to take credit for, somewhat unfairly). Basically, on that front, we can expect that they'll roll back the Liberals' extremely radical industrial relations legislation and maybe fiddle with tax rates a bit, but beyond that, there won't be any major economic reforms.

It's generally difficult to pin down just what it is Labor stands for, becuase having been in opposition for so long, they're pretty tight-lipped about it. Under Kevin Rudd they're likely to steer a fairly conservative path, though with token gestures on a variety of social issues. We probably won't see them legislate for gay marriage, grant autonomy to indigenous communities or end mandatory detention of refugees, but they might make small gestures in these areas.

The Democrats are a disappearing minor party that was once the great hope for ending the two party system. Think Lib Dems or NDP, but less successful. Formed by Don Chipp, a disgruntled Liberal, they set out with a policy to "keep the bastards honest" and generally presented a mixture of Liberal Party liberalism and Labor Party social justice. For a while they held the all important Balance of Power in the Senate (unlike Canada and the UK, we have a robust Upper House which, provided one party doesn't control both houses, provides an effective check on the government. By contrast,Australian state governments are far weaker than Candian provinces or American states despite our nominally federal set-up). Unfortunately for them, politics moved sharply to the right in the 1980s and 1990s, and they ended up looking like a left-wing party purely by sticking to their values. Several leadership crises and the rise of the Greens look set to, regrettably, wipe this party out in the near future.

The Greens are a slowly growing force that gets significant votes in many seats but is essentially locked out of the Lower house by our electoral system, despite having a higher national primary vote than the Nationals who hold 12 seats. In the Senate, however, they are a reasonably robust force and could well end up with the Balance of Power. They're much like the Greens elsewhere, maybe slightly more heterogenous on the economic front (most of the Greens I know are essentially environmental capitalists). They have pretty comprehensive policy statements that often make sense, but don't get a run in the media and are difficult to soundbite. As concern over the environment rises, the question is whether they can capitalise or whether environmenta issues will be co-opted.

Family First is the new "family values" party, often thought of as the analogue to the hyperaggressive American religous right, but this is unfair. That'd be the Christian Democrats, a marginal force held together basically by the Reverend Fred Nile, Australia's biggest douchebag. Rather, Family First appear to be more of the religious centre-left... sure, they're not fans of the gays, but they have fairly leftish views in immigration, refugee issues, indigneous affairs and industrial relations, in that their 'Christian' reading of these issues compels them to actually have some compassion, unlike the hard-right views of the Liberal Party. Even on gay issues, their official gay rights policy is that "all co-dependents should not be discriminated against – whether Homosexual or not."

All other parties are vanishingly insignificant, except when it comes time to allocate those final couple of senate seats through the quota and preferences system.

As for the important issues in the election... security has taken a back seat now that everyone's sick of the war on terror and its collateral damage. Instead, the election it's likely to be fought over (if the Liberals get their way) economic management or (more likely, and massively beneficial to Labor) industrial relations and the environment.

Sparks between Howard and Barak Obama nonwithstanding, foreign policy is a non-issue. Everoyne disagrees with the invasion of Iraq these days except diehard Liberal fanboys, but aside from disagreement over Iraq (which was so random and stupid an endeavour that it's best thought of as an aberration form normal international relations) Australia has a firm bipartisan consensus in favour of the American alliance. There are slight disagreements over the degree of subservience and how much we should be "engaging with Asia" (though the rise of China has answered the latter question pretty conclusively) but these are insubstantial. Neither party is going to end ANZUS and but neither party is going to upset China for the sake of the US, either.

At the moment the polls and the betting all indicate a Labor landslide but 6 weeks is long time in politics.
 
Well then I must say that that the economy will not be performing as well as it has under these reforms. How far do want the repealed back to?

That's actually mostly rubbish. The thing is, AWAs are best only for skilled workers who can negotiate their own conditions well. Collective Bargaining should not be undermined, and at any rate, the old common-law contracts are still far more common and fairer than AWAs. AWAs should not be forced onto vulnerable workers and the current legislation allows them to be. Can you explain how the spread of AWAs and removal of protections under the award system actually improves the economy? What was wrong with the 1996-2006 status quo? Why do we need especially proscribed and standardised individual contracts when people who wanted to set their own conditions were fine working under the common law contracts? Doesn't standardising individual agreements in this way actually reduce flexibility?

The other thing is there's a lot of nasty stuff hidden in the legislation which amounts to massive re-regulation aimed at tilting the playing field in the employer's favour. It's not a free system. For example, when union representatives enter a workplace, they have to notify the boss of who attends the meeting, they have to meet where the boss tells them, and they have to walk the path the boss tells them. Talk to somebody who's actually involved in employment contract law... there's a lot of nasty stuff in this legislation.
 
Can anyone give us unbiased info on the parties, I have never heard of any of these.

The Liberal Party belies their name and has traditionally been Australia's right of centre 'conservative' party representative of business and the more affluent (think British Conservative Party or US Republican Party) although (just to confuse things) in recent times they would more accurately be described as radical on some issues such as workplace relations and labour laws. The Liberal Party and the National Party form a governing coalition.

The National Party are also a conservative party but can also be described economically as 'agrarian socialists' with conservative social values traditionally represent rural Australia - hope this is not to confusing.

The Australian Labor Party (or ALP for short) are traditionally the left of centre representatives of the working class and was a creation of the Australian Trade Union movement at the end of the 19th century (think British Labour Party or the US Democrats with more guts). However, the ALP has been moving steadily to the political right and there is little to distinguish them from the Liberal Party on many issues with the exception of workplace relations and labour law.

The Greens are considered to be left of centre and as the name suggests have a focus on environmental issues. Some people refer to them as political fairies at the bottom of the garden because of some their more fanciful policies that they are (fortunately) never likely to be in a position to implement. Still a minor party but may hold the balance of power in the Senate.

The Democrats also a minor left of centre party originally formed by a disgruntled Liberal Party Minister to "keep the bastards honest" - may possibly disappear from the political landscape after continual process of implosion.

These descriptions are general in character and of course without bias! :goodjob:

Just spotted Arwon's more detailed post and I generally concur with his descriptions
 
@Arwon & Dame Edna: Great write ups!

As for me, I would vote either Labor or Greens. I don't like the Liberals, and 11 years too much time in power in any case. I would also like to see the Greens gain more influence.
 
1) There is not meant to be a 'u' in Labor.
2) There is no point in naming any party other than the Coalition or Labor, because we all know that minor parties just make up the numbers and perhaps get the balance of power in the Senate.
3) I hope the Coalition gets democratically massacred! Its not about who I want to win, but who I don't want to win!!
 
John Howard is Steven Harpers political mentor. If Howard is running again, I hope he gets no votes.
 
1) There is not meant to be a 'u' in Labor.
2) There is no point in naming any party other than the Coalition or Labor, because we all know that minor parties just make up the numbers and perhaps get the balance of power in the Senate.
3) I hope the Coalition gets democratically massacred! Its not about who I want to win, but who I don't want to win!!

1) That's commonwealth spelling
2) You never know, some parties end up really emerging from nowhere
3) Exactly:king:
 
Well then I must say that that the economy will not be performing as well as it has under these reforms. How far do want the repealed back to?

The economic benefits are greatly exaggerated (given the emerging buisness cycle is responsible for good recent performance) and frankly economic performance is something I don't care for. Theres no way that I want to live under a legislative regime that gives employers huge amounts of power over my working conditions to make them a little richer while they screw the working class over even further
 
1) That's commonwealth spelling
2) You never know, some parties end up really emerging from nowhere
3) Exactly:king:

1) I know we'd generally prefer to spell labour with a u, but the founders of the party didn't know that. The official name of the party is actually the Australian Labor Party - check it out!!

For example...

http://www.alp.org.au/

2) No, I more or less do know :) As much as it would be entertaining to see the Greens trying to run the country, its never going to happen.

3) Exactly!! :D
 
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