TopGearFanatic
Duke of St. Louis
I've never used it and in all the hours of playing, I've only seen the A.I. use it once.
Autocracy is overpowered
- Thread starter lordsurya08
- Start date
Let me start with saying I dislike warmongering so perhaps I'm biased.
But to me benefits from other policy branches is more powerfull in any situation not totally focussed on domination. In fact, I believe even when going for domination those other policies might get you bonusses to science and production that are actually very nice for warfare.
It's not even that autocracy is that weak. It's mostly the fact that warfare is too easy and thus you don't really need plus that it comes so late.
If they rework it it will still be pretty late. Think I will start up a advanced start in industrial with America or Germany and fill it up right away if next patch improves it.
But to me benefits from other policy branches is more powerfull in any situation not totally focussed on domination. In fact, I believe even when going for domination those other policies might get you bonusses to science and production that are actually very nice for warfare.
It's not even that autocracy is that weak. It's mostly the fact that warfare is too easy and thus you don't really need plus that it comes so late.
If they rework it it will still be pretty late. Think I will start up a advanced start in industrial with America or Germany and fill it up right away if next patch improves it.
ArmChairAttila
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2006
- Messages
- 78
I like your theory CYZ. Remember the 66% combat penalty for defending on plains! Remember how powerful horses where? Ya, the devs did not re-balance honor and autocracy very well after making those profound military changes early after the game release. The result is honor and autocracy are the weakest out of all policies.
On the other hand, Piety is OVERPOWERED! Seriously theocracy feels just to necessary, like you do not have a choice on whether to use it or not
On the other hand, Piety is OVERPOWERED! Seriously theocracy feels just to necessary, like you do not have a choice on whether to use it or not
You honestly don't
GoodSarmatian
Jokerfied Western Male
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2006
- Messages
- 9,408
I used Autocracy once for the achievement and never again, I have even forgotten the names of most autocracy policies.
Price drop for buying units ? Nice maybe, but I usually go for Big Ben + Mercantilism for cheap buildings and units.
Lowe maintenance cost ? Nice, but does it save so much more money than Oligarchy ?
Lower unhappiness from occupied cities ? Why would anyone need that ? By this time courthouses are cheap and annexing more than one or two cities seems like a rookie mistake for me. I usually do better with two or three cities and a couple of puppets than with more than four full cities. It just increases the cost of your policies, brings more unhappiness and makes it harder to get national wonders. I just finishesd one of my most succesful games as Egypt with just two cities and had conquered two continents.
Double strategic resources ? Might be useful, but 1) during the indutrial era my army size is more limited by my producton capacity than my resources, 2.) the bulk of my forces consists of (Mechanized) Infantry which don't require resources and 3) if I really need more resources Cultural Diplomacy works jut as well.
The only real good policies seem to be the combat bonus for wounded units and the temporary strength boost.
Price drop for buying units ? Nice maybe, but I usually go for Big Ben + Mercantilism for cheap buildings and units.
Lowe maintenance cost ? Nice, but does it save so much more money than Oligarchy ?
Lower unhappiness from occupied cities ? Why would anyone need that ? By this time courthouses are cheap and annexing more than one or two cities seems like a rookie mistake for me. I usually do better with two or three cities and a couple of puppets than with more than four full cities. It just increases the cost of your policies, brings more unhappiness and makes it harder to get national wonders. I just finishesd one of my most succesful games as Egypt with just two cities and had conquered two continents.
Double strategic resources ? Might be useful, but 1) during the indutrial era my army size is more limited by my producton capacity than my resources, 2.) the bulk of my forces consists of (Mechanized) Infantry which don't require resources and 3) if I really need more resources Cultural Diplomacy works jut as well.
The only real good policies seem to be the combat bonus for wounded units and the temporary strength boost.
The_Quasar
King
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2010
- Messages
- 862
imho Autocracy needs to be strong, or there will be no point to it. You have to give up so much to get it, and it has to be planned very early.
However, in my experience, it tends to come too late to make any difference, the game is normally won or lost before you get to that stage. I believe that in most games, you win or lose in the first 100-200 turns (depending on speed), whatever happens after that is just playing it out.
There is a very valid argument that as you have to give up on so many great policies in the first 100 turns to use Autocracy, then it should be a lot stronger than it is, as it will have to make up for several hundred turns of bonuses you would have received from Liberty.
However, in my experience, it tends to come too late to make any difference, the game is normally won or lost before you get to that stage. I believe that in most games, you win or lose in the first 100-200 turns (depending on speed), whatever happens after that is just playing it out.
There is a very valid argument that as you have to give up on so many great policies in the first 100 turns to use Autocracy, then it should be a lot stronger than it is, as it will have to make up for several hundred turns of bonuses you would have received from Liberty.
GoodSarmatian
Jokerfied Western Male
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2006
- Messages
- 9,408
Not really. I have had close victories and in my first emperor game Darius had a diplo win five turns before I finished my Utopia Project. Late game policies can really help to bring the game around: Order is very good to consolidate your empire and Scientific Revolution let's you catch up or take the lead in an arms race.
The problem with Aurocracy is not that it comes too late, it's the relative weakness compared to other trees.
Bibor
Doomsday Machine
Autocracy, as a tree, is pretty powerful. As powerful as Order (which is overrated, compared to Autocracy).
Later era starts should consider using Autocracy, as someone already said.
The problem with Autocracy at Ancient starts is that the stepping stones are shaky. Or to be precise, the right side of the Commerce and Piety trees are not strong enough to enable skipping Freedom and Rationalism.
Tradition-Piety-Commerce-Autocracy should be on par with
Liberty-Rationalism-Freeedom-Order
...
Although Autocracy does not cancel out the use Rationalism, the happiness loss from skipping Piety cannot be gained by other means. In my opinion, a pretty easy solution would be to change Protectionism to give +2
per luxury resource (as opposed to current +1). That way it could support an equivalent of a "pop 8 theocracy city" with similar investment into social policies.
An empire boosted by Tradition, Commerce and some points in Rationalism would clearly indicate a "tech-oriented warmonger" that aims for Autocracy.
Later era starts should consider using Autocracy, as someone already said.
The problem with Autocracy at Ancient starts is that the stepping stones are shaky. Or to be precise, the right side of the Commerce and Piety trees are not strong enough to enable skipping Freedom and Rationalism.
Tradition-Piety-Commerce-Autocracy should be on par with
Liberty-Rationalism-Freeedom-Order
...
Although Autocracy does not cancel out the use Rationalism, the happiness loss from skipping Piety cannot be gained by other means. In my opinion, a pretty easy solution would be to change Protectionism to give +2
per luxury resource (as opposed to current +1). That way it could support an equivalent of a "pop 8 theocracy city" with similar investment into social policies.An empire boosted by Tradition, Commerce and some points in Rationalism would clearly indicate a "tech-oriented warmonger" that aims for Autocracy.
sylvanllewelyn
Perma-newb
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,706
If you won before industrial, fine. Otherwise, autocracy borders on ridiculousness:
- Opening: saves you way more than trade unions
- militarism: "buy more units"...
- police state: directly control all conquered cities, no courthouses needed. At 9pop or above annexed cities produce less unhappiness than native ones. Annex, buy units from the front and keep pushing.
If you reach total war, there's a bug: it actually gives you +33% for 33 turns, not 20.
- Opening: saves you way more than trade unions
- militarism: "buy more units"...
- police state: directly control all conquered cities, no courthouses needed. At 9pop or above annexed cities produce less unhappiness than native ones. Annex, buy units from the front and keep pushing.
If you reach total war, there's a bug: it actually gives you +33% for 33 turns, not 20.
The only time I use autocracy is if I am playing a very warlike game and the size of my army is causing my economy to bend. Then I take the 33% army cost reduction, which can give 50-100 GPT. IMO, the best first-level policy in the game, next to Freedom's 50% 
from specialists.
The rest of the tree comes too late to really be useful. If you are fighting a big warring game, chances are you don't have the culture to keep moving through that tree until it is too late.
from specialists.The rest of the tree comes too late to really be useful. If you are fighting a big warring game, chances are you don't have the culture to keep moving through that tree until it is too late.
Autocracy, as a tree, is pretty powerful. As powerful as Order (which is overrated, compared to Autocracy).
Later era starts should consider using Autocracy, as someone already said.
The problem with Autocracy at Ancient starts is that the stepping stones are shaky. Or to be precise, the right side of the Commerce and Piety trees are not strong enough to enable skipping Freedom and Rationalism.
Tradition-Piety-Commerce-Autocracy should be on par with
Liberty-Rationalism-Freeedom-Order
...
Although Autocracy does not cancel out the use Rationalism, the happiness loss from skipping Piety cannot be gained by other means. In my opinion, a pretty easy solution would be to change Protectionism to give +2
An empire boosted by Tradition, Commerce and some points in Rationalism would clearly indicate a "tech-oriented warmonger" that aims for Autocracy.
Well put.
