AVATAR mod using Dunewars as a code base

Psychic_Llamas · Dec 19, 2009

Ok, well i went and saw the movie Avatar and i fell in love with the world and the story behind it. About half way through i through "this would make a fantastic mod!" and since then the idea has been brewing in my head. i figured id jot it down here and see if anyone thinks the same as me

Caution if you havent seen the movie yet this may contain spoilers!

(though most spoilers have been replaced by links)

EDIT: potential base mods i can work off are DUNEWARS and PLANETFALL. each has their own merits. ill make a pros/cons list here later after ive played the 2 mods again.

Links:

Civilizations:

Spoiler :

Game Mechanics:

Spoiler :

Tile Yields and Commerces

Spoiler :

The planet Pandora functions a LOT differenterently to most other sci fi settings. on Pandora 'production' and 'gold' means nothing. as such i plan to change these commerces to behave more appropriately to the setting which should help to show that 'you aren't in kansas anymore'.
Production:
- The Native Na'Vi do not 'build' anything from what i can tell. they use what nature supplies them with and probably use Eywa to shape and influence thier environments. to represent this i would give all Na'Vi cities a mechanic that makes them ignore hammers in the tiles and only use food. this would effectively be an inverse of the Fallow trait. all of their buildings and units and projects would be completed using food regardless of civics they use and they would get special Na'Vi only improvements that the RDA and other humans cannot use.
- The RDA on the other hand is all about production and profit from the Unobtainium on pandora. the natural terrain on pandora should yeild no hammers or production at all and would have to be worked/ cleared and mined extensively by RDA workers to gain the essentail production they need to conquor Pandora and take the Unobtainium. they should act the same as normal civs but due to the innitial terrain yields they would have to work to get anywhere.
Gold:
- On pandora gold and silver mean nothing. The Na'Vi do not have any clear form of currency and they share everything with each other and Eywa. I would probably create a fourth tile yield specifically for the Na'Vi civilizations called something like 'Eywa'. this would act as their in game currency which they can use to rush production with (with certain civics etc) 'buy' certain promotions with and spend in events.
- The RDA are already filthy rich in terms of Earth. And the Na'Vi care nothing of their wealth. the soul reason the RDA even exists on Pandora is the precious Unobtainium deposits unique to the planet. I would replace the basic currency for the Human and RDA civs with 'Unobtainium'. this would act the same as normal gold.
Commerces (from trade routes)
- Because i will be representing Na'Vi currency with Eywa, i think it reasonable to call their Trade commerce 'Links', representing the neural links between individuals on the planet. having lots of these linsk would generate more Eywa for the Na'Vi and allow them to 'buy' miracles from Eywa to help them fight the RDA.
- The RDA Trade Commerces should be unaffected by the change to Unobtainium.
Summary:
- Food stays as is.
- Gold => Unobtainum (RDA) / Eywa (Na'Vi).
- Production => unavaliable to Na'Vi / as is rare at begining, but essentail for the RDA
- Trade Commerces => Links (Na'Vi) / Commerce (stays as is for RDA)

Roads and movement

Spoiler :

Units and Promotions

Spoiler :

Resources, Terrain, Features and Improvements

Spoiler :

Resources:

Spoiler :

Terrain:

Spoiler :

Features:

Spoiler :

Improvements:

Spoiler :

RDA/Human improvements

Spoiler :

Na'Vi Improvements

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Unique Improvements:

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Techtrees:

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Religions:

Spoiler :

keldath · Dec 19, 2009

great idea,

when i first heard the story line of avatar,
the first thing i thought about was - a rip of from dune? - the helicopters are like those in dune,
a rare resource existing on one planet, natives that fight (lke fremen).

so cool, i hope you get avatar into a full mod.

Vylinius · Dec 20, 2009

I'll test out the mod once it can be tested and this should totally be put into work.

Psychic_Llamas · Dec 20, 2009

I edited the top post with my current design intentions

Deon · Dec 21, 2009

An idea about unique feature: Hometree, similar to Yggdrasil and has its graphics.

Na'vi should be able to found a settlement on it and recieve a wonder which should give them defence, culture and probably other boni (airbase space? + ikran xp? Since ikran is an air unit, and they nest on its branches); Coproration should raze this improvement and as an event recieve a special improvement which has high yields and provides a few inobtanium sources.

Psychic_Llamas · Dec 21, 2009

well im making Omaticayas capital city the Hometree (Kelutrel), but i had a very similar idea to what you suggest with Trees of Wishes. they are more common and not really a Unique feature. but they will be rare. i think RDA and Corporation followers should be able to raze them to make a source of unobtanium like you said. good idea

Tasunke · Dec 22, 2009

RDA units ... expensive, powerful, slow

Na'vi units ... cheap, weak(er), fast

Also I think, like, Na'vi units should gain at least 20% strength in Lush terrain (I was initially thinking +50% lush strength) ... while RDA units gain 20% city strength perhaps.

**the one exception would be the basic units of the RDA and Na'vi, warriors vs marines.
I think marines should be weaker, although gain 10% strength per heavy support (mech suit) up to a max of +50% strength. Then throw in some basic tweaks like having the Na'vi warrior 20% cheaper and 20% stronger than a marine ... which eventually would of course turn into the Marine being 25% more expensive and 20% stronger if they are supported by at least 3 mech suits, and this is all assuming that they are not in lush terrain, or god-forbid near a tree of wishes. Lush terrain increases all Na'vi units 20% strength bonus, and Tree of Wishes an extra 30% in a 1 tile radius. which would mean that in lush terrain, a marine guarded by 3 heavy mechs would only be a mere 4% stronger, while 25% more expensive still. And near a tree of wishes, a marine would actually be 17% weaker!!

Ok, so thats melee, which are relativley equal-ish. Aerial units, however, RDA would have the clear advantage. RDA would most likely be 33% slower than Na'vi air-units, however 100% stronger. Of course, would also be 200% more expensive, and twice the upkeep costs ... but well worth it to be at the top of the food-chain if we are using Civ IV combat calculators, imo. They would also have bombardments, which can destroy things the Na'vi like. Able to wound units too of course, although debatable wether such bombardments should be able to be non-damage capped and therefore begin to kill units (not all at once like AOE spells, but one at a time with minimal or zero collateral effects).
Meanwhile Na'vi Air Units have no choice but direct attack, therefore lack the flexibility, but do gain speed, and of course a 20% strength bonus when in Lush Terrain. I would suggest an additional 30 or 50% strength bonus to Na'vi air units in the Floating Mountain ranges.

I think that the wildlife should be powerful barbarian units almost as strong as their Na'vi counterparts, most likely with animal AI, and the Na'vi to start at peace with these "barbarians" ... and also that a Na'vi WorldSpell could be "call of the Eywa" where all barbarians have a 50% chance to convert to the cause. Maybe a bit faster than other air units as well, making it the fastest unit in-game.

The Clan's hero should probably be the Giant Red-Dragon Rider, Toka-Na-Tu or something. I would suggest a flying unit comparable in strength to at least a helicopter, maybe closer to the biggest RDA flying machine, about 100% stronger than the other Big-Reds in any case (although that could simply be from combat 1-5 I guess xD) ..... main feature other than strength would be a hugely effective "rally" spell, and perhaps a 50% withdrawal rate.

The RDA hero could be an "Ultra Mech" which is commanded by the Seargant Guy. This Prototype Technology is so untested that using it is near-suicidal, yet a powerful weapon against the Na'vi. Probably the only land-unit of the RDA that clearly stands above the rest of the units living on the planet ... a true Super-Unit similar to Avatar of Wrath in relative strength. All Na'Vi improvements and Natural terrain is destroyed upon its movement. It cannot use roads, cannot be transported by air-units, can only move normally by land, and only has a movement of 1. However ... anything it walks on is automatically turned into bare-land, except of course for Unobtainium, which sticks around. Its extremely slow ... but is so powerful that its pretty much a victory condition for the RDA. I mean ... once it starts its march, the Na'vi have one of two goals. 1) band together and (hopefully) destroy it, or 2) destroy the RDA's cities before the Super Mech destroys all their Trees of Wishes and/or cities.

Psychic_Llamas · Dec 22, 2009

nice post

some great ideas in there:

RDA units ... expensive, powerful, slow

Na'vi units ... cheap, weak(er), fast

pretty much along the lines of what i was thinking

Also I think, like, Na'vi units should gain at least 20% strength in Lush terrain (I was initially thinking +50% lush strength) ... while RDA units gain 20% city strength perhaps.

i think ill change this to jungle, rainforest and Forest of Eywa strength for the Na'Vi. and i think ill add bedrock to the RDA's City defence.

**the one exception would be the basic units of the RDA and Na'vi, warriors vs marines.
I think marines should be weaker, although gain 10% strength per heavy support (mech suit) up to a max of +50% strength. Then throw in some basic tweaks like having the Na'vi warrior 20% cheaper and 20% stronger than a marine ... which eventually would of course turn into the Marine being 25% more expensive and 20% stronger if they are supported by at least 3 mech suits, and this is all assuming that they are not in lush terrain, or god-forbid near a tree of wishes. Lush terrain increases all Na'vi units 20% strength bonus, and Tree of Wishes an extra 30% in a 1 tile radius. which would mean that in lush terrain, a marine guarded by 3 heavy mechs would only be a mere 4% stronger, while 25% more expensive still. And near a tree of wishes, a marine would actually be 17% weaker!!

i really like this break down. i think ill use this as a basis for the melee

Ok, so thats melee, which are relativley equal-ish. Aerial units, however, RDA would have the clear advantage. RDA would most likely be 33% slower than Na'vi air-units, however 100% stronger. Of course, would also be 200% more expensive, and twice the upkeep costs ... but well worth it to be at the top of the food-chain if we are using Civ IV combat calculators, imo. They would also have bombardments, which can destroy things the Na'vi like. Able to wound units too of course, although debatable wether such bombardments should be able to be non-damage capped and therefore begin to kill units (not all at once like AOE spells, but one at a time with minimal or zero collateral effects).
Meanwhile Na'vi Air Units have no choice but direct attack, therefore lack the flexibility, but do gain speed, and of course a 20% strength bonus when in Lush Terrain. I would suggest an additional 30 or 50% strength bonus to Na'vi air units in the Floating Mountain ranges.

im a little inclined to change what you suggest a little. I wouldnt say RDA has an advantage. Sure they have the advantage in shear firepower, the Na'Vi have greater evasion, and tactical advantage. i therefore see them as pretty even in this respect. im happy to use some of your suggestions for the Heavy Air Units, but not the Light Air units. the way i see it is:

Na'Vi Light Air units are cheap and fast, but have superior evasion and first strike (and probably interception!) while RDA Light Air is slower and has slightly more firepower.

Na'Vi heavy should be similarly fast and evasive but have more strength than first strikes. RDA should have greater firepower and bombarding capabilities here (where Na'Vi have no bombardment. but they DO get interception from the Light Air units which the RDA probably wont)

in addition i would give Na'Vi a combat advantage in Floating Mountains and forests of Eywa, not so much lush terrain. POSSIBLY also rainforest for the light air units.

I think that the wildlife should be powerful barbarian units almost as strong as their Na'vi counterparts, most likely with animal AI, and the Na'vi to start at peace with these "barbarians" ... and also that a Na'vi WorldSpell could be "call of the Eywa" where all barbarians have a 50% chance to convert to the cause. Maybe a bit faster than other air units as well, making it the fastest unit in-game.

definitely a cool idea. i was thinking of having a series of rituals the Na'Vi can build which acts like 'worshiping Eywa' and summons a large group of animal units. making them at peace with barbarian animals and having this ritual simply convert a proportion of them, like the Clan World Spell in FFH, would be a good idea

The Clan's hero should probably be the Giant Red-Dragon Rider, Toka-Na-Tu or something. I would suggest a flying unit comparable in strength to at least a helicopter, maybe closer to the biggest RDA flying machine, about 100% stronger than the other Big-Reds in any case (although that could simply be from combat 1-5 I guess xD) ..... main feature other than strength would be a hugely effective "rally" spell, and perhaps a 50% withdrawal rate.

im not sure i will make hero units just yet. its an interesting idea having Toruk-mak-ta (i think thats it) the Navi hero... simply a pimped up Toruk unit, could be interesting.

The RDA hero could be an "Ultra Mech" which is commanded by the Seargant Guy. This Prototype Technology is so untested that using it is near-suicidal, yet a powerful weapon against the Na'vi. Probably the only land-unit of the RDA that clearly stands above the rest of the units living on the planet ... a true Super-Unit similar to Avatar of Wrath in relative strength. All Na'Vi improvements and Natural terrain is destroyed upon its movement. It cannot use roads, cannot be transported by air-units, can only move normally by land, and only has a movement of 1. However ... anything it walks on is automatically turned into bare-land, except of course for Unobtainium, which sticks around. Its extremely slow ... but is so powerful that its pretty much a victory condition for the RDA. I mean ... once it starts its march, the Na'vi have one of two goals. 1) band together and (hopefully) destroy it, or 2) destroy the RDA's cities before the Super Mech destroys all their Trees of Wishes and/or cities.

again im not sure about heroes at this stage. if i did i cant see a mech like this doing so much damage (id like to stick to whats in the movie as much as possible. the only 'mech' that did any real damage was Colonel Miles Quaritch AMP suit, and that was just a normal suit.

Overall there are some great ideas in here

ill make a few points on the units in the first post now to reflect what i like

thanks for the input

edit: added summary to the first post, under game mechanics/Units and promotions.

Tasunke · Dec 22, 2009

hmm, Perhaps Omotikaya Clan hero is a Toruk, Eastern sea tribe is an Ikran, and Plains Tribe is a Pa'li ... and maybe RDA and Rebel alliance heroes are mech suit and Avatar-recon ... of either similar or opposing strenghts? Kind of like the Rosier/Valin duality, early and useful into the mid-game.

Maniac · Dec 22, 2009

It seems much easier to base such a mod on Planetfall. The Na'Vi pretty much equal Planetfall Hybrids right? Their forests could provide 'Planet' renamed, which would determine how much animals they can control.

If you're planning for this to be a mod rather than a scenario to be played once, it would probably be more interesting to have several corporations around trying to mine unobtainium. This creates the possibility for intercorporational conflict, and would make diplomacy less predictable.

davidlallen · Dec 22, 2009

Maniac said:
It seems much easier to base such a mod on Planetfall. The Na'Vi pretty much equal Planetfall Hybrids right?

I appreciate the extra traffic in the DW sub-forum, but I wonder if there are a lot of Avatar fans who read posts in the main C&C forum and have not discovered the DW sub-forum. Would it be worthwhile to start a thread there in addition, and advertise it on the planetfall sub-forum as well?

Psychic_Llamas · Dec 22, 2009

It seems much easier to base such a mod on Planetfall. The Na'Vi pretty much equal Planetfall Hybrids right? Their forests could provide 'Planet' renamed, which would determine how much animals they can control.

If you're planning for this to be a mod rather than a scenario to be played once, it would probably be more interesting to have several corporations around trying to mine unobtainium. This creates the possibility for intercorporational conflict, and would make diplomacy less predictable.

i honestly hadn't considered Planetfall as a base! that does sound like a cool idea indeed... i havent played it in ages. i think ill redownload and have a play to see what there is i can adapt

thanks a lot for the suggestion

also, i would like other corporations, but i dont know of any mentioned in the movie (i havent plyed the game yet). ill probably have to make some up and im hesitant to do so. but it would make sense from a gameplay perspective.

I appreciate the extra traffic in the DW sub-forum, but I wonder if there are a lot of Avatar fans who read posts in the main C&C forum and have not discovered the DW sub-forum. Would it be worthwhile to start a thread there in addition, and advertise it on the planetfall sub-forum as well?

good idea. i think ill put some threads directing to here as well. i might eventually request a subforum for this too.

davidlallen · Dec 22, 2009

Psychic_Llamas said:
i think ill put some threads directing to here as well. i might eventually request a subforum for this too.

Great! I recommended to another player about the steps for launching a mod:

1. Development thread in the main C&C forum
2. Release version 1.0
3. Thread in the modpack forum
4. If you have sufficient volume on the modpack thread, apply for a sub-forum.

Nothing against some of the other sub-forums, but there are a few sub-forums that never actually released a mod.

Vylinius · Dec 22, 2009

I have another idea for religions you could do science because well the avatar project was more used by scientists so they could more easily take samples from the pandoran ecosystem.

Psychic_Llamas · Dec 22, 2009

Great! I recommended to another player about the steps for launching a mod:

1. Development thread in the main C&C forum
2. Release version 1.0
3. Thread in the modpack forum
4. If you have sufficient volume on the modpack thread, apply for a sub-forum.

Nothing against some of the other sub-forums, but there are a few sub-forums that never actually released a mod.

thanks for the tips

should i abandon this thread then and make a new one in the main C&C forum do you think??

I have another idea for religions you could do science because well the avatar project was more used by scientists so they could more easily take samples from the pandoran ecosystem.

i had considered that. i think i will include something like it but need more ideas.

davidlallen · Dec 22, 2009

Psychic_Llamas said:
thanks for the tips should i abandon this thread then and make a new one in the main C&C forum do you think??

At least make a thread in the planetfall forum and the main C&C, to get publicity. It doesn't matter which one becomes the main one, I suppose; you can judge by which one gets more posts.

Psychic_Llamas · Dec 22, 2009

Ok thanks David

it makes sense to make the main on in the C&C forum, its neutral ground

i will no longer be updating my Design in this thread. go here for the most current design

Deon · Dec 22, 2009

And here flies my Ikran.

AVATAR mod using Dunewars as a code base

Psychic_Llamas

Wizard in the Making

keldath

LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

Vylinius

College Student

Psychic_Llamas

Wizard in the Making

Deon

Lt. of Mordor

Psychic_Llamas

Wizard in the Making

Tasunke

Crazy Horse

Psychic_Llamas

Wizard in the Making

Tasunke

Crazy Horse

Maniac

Apolyton Sage

davidlallen

Deity

Psychic_Llamas

Wizard in the Making

davidlallen

Deity

Vylinius

College Student

Psychic_Llamas

Wizard in the Making

davidlallen

Deity

Psychic_Llamas

Wizard in the Making

Deon

Lt. of Mordor

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