AW... and now for something completely different

darski

Regent in Training
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
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Ontario, Can.
I was reading the War Academy the other night and I read about the Always War game variant.

I am peaceful by nature and a builder at heart but this did sound interesting adn i would like to try it slowly and easily :rolleyes: :lol:

Major points in my game

I am plain vanilla (v1.29...have less corruption mod too)

I am Chieftain (need to work my way back up to Regent)

I am lousy at war

Suggestions to help a newbie play the game (winning would not likely be an option :crazyeye: :lol: :crazyeye:

what Civ -best early war advantage or where to place emphasis
what to stress
what government(s)
Really simply and clearly... how do I proceed with production (settlers/cities?)
Really simply and clearly... how do I deploy troops and what troops?

I really am a builder at heart and not a strategist by nature or by training; which is why I have to ask these most basic questions. I (had) just wanted to build my little empire so I never really learned how to wage war. I have done war and I have won war but I am not good at it.

If anyone feels the need to make jokes about female leaders etc... fine go for it... can't hurt my feelings because all those things are true of me.:queen:

:thanx:
 
Major points in my game

I am plain vanilla (v1.29...have less corruption mod too)

I play C3C, so take any remarks that I make with that in mind.

I am lousy at war

So is the AI. You've got the edge.

Before I continue, let me give you a couple of links. Reading these beforehand may help.

First, some other players and I just finished an AW Monarch game as the Russians. It was my first All-War. There's some good discussion. It's CBob01 and it's here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=187962

Second, from the War Academy, "Warmongering 101" by scoutsout:

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/warmongering101.php

what Civ -best early war advantage or where to place emphasis
what to stress

As you play vanilla and I do not, I'm going to leave the question of civ choice to those who know more about vanilla than I. With that caveat, I'd suggest something with a strong offensive UU, preferably a fast attacker. Also think about when you'd like your Golden Age to happen.

Stress offense. Defend using offensive units. In other words, kill anything that sets so much as its big toe in your lands.

what government(s)

Monarchy, because you can cash rush & have no WW.

Really simply and clearly... how do I proceed with production (settlers/cities?)

I think that will depend on your civ choice and the start that you roll. Like any other game, you'll want to expand quickly in the beginning. Unlike other games, you'll constantly be on a war footing.

Really simply and clearly... how do I deploy troops and what troops?

Stacks of offensive units. Lots of horses help, too. Use bombarding units (cats & trebs) to redline enemy units, then go leader-fishing with your elite units. Use the leaders to form armies. An early army goes a long way.

Just a couple of other considerations:
1) Tech trading will not be an option. Building or capturing the Great Library would be a big help.
2) Under normal circumstances, early contact with other civs is nice, for tech trading purposes. In AW, late contact may be preferable, just because you'll have to declare on them as soon as you meet them.
3) Some AW games allow initial trading, with a DOW by the end of the turn. Others do not, forcing you to declare ASAP. The former might be easier for your first venture into AW, just because it will allow you at least a little trading (at least until everyone is met).

Good luck!
 
thank you ... I'll read the links. I need all the info I can get.
 
what to stress
Do not stress, its a turn based game, you can take all the real time you want for each in-game turn.

what government(s)
For a real Always War varian game, there is only Monarchy. Do with it just as you would with republic in normal epic games: Switch to it once feasible, and never look at it again!

Really simply and clearly... how do I proceed with production (settlers/cities?)

Build some warriors to scout the area, knowing your most direct environment is very important.
Build 2 units to defend your city before building your first settler. And have a defender ready for your new city. But as soon as your scouting units detect that you are on a peninsula, and the AI only comes from outside of it, you can start sending undefended settlers to the safe zone, and units to meet with incoming AI units. (this is why scouting units are important)

Build your cities so they all have about 12 tiles to work on, except coastal cities, they should get 12 land-tiles to work on, unless there is a bonus resource in the water.

Except for your first couple of scouting units and defenders, you should build vets, so build barracks as soon as possible.

Do not build temples, and do not build libraries, and even markets until much later in the game. To increase your commerce (and thus science) just expand, build/take more cities.

Raising gives slaves (cost no upkeep) and removes any chance of flipping.

Really simply and clearly... how do I deploy troops and what troops?

(the following is a bit overly careful for chieftain, I admit, this is what I'd do on regent and monarch, in chieftain you could do without the defenders and catapults and just mass charge with stacks of horseman.)

When your first couple of scouting units get killed by AI, replace them with vet spearman. In fact, build extra spearman, and send them to harass the AI's, not only to pillage their improvements, but as long as hostile units are around, (fortify on a hill/forest/mountain/jungle near a city) the AI will keep their workers inside, even if they could have finished some work. (the AI isn't smart enough to see it) This will keep the AI from getting roads, thus cripple their progress by a large amount.

Do this to any AI you can reach. You may not be in a position to conquer them, but early harassment will greatly weaken them for the future.

After you build a couple of cities, specialize them, one for workers, one for settlers, 2 for vet units, and also a couple for catapults. (once you capture enough slaves you may rejoin native workers in cities, but don't join slaves, keep them)

Yes, you heard me correctly, build spearman and catapults!

But even in an AW game, when your empire is large enough, you can leave the inner cities undefended, just make sure you kill all incoming.

In the very early game, focus on defenders, when you have a nice starting set up switch it around and make sure your forces are mostly offenders, (not counting catapults) and attack incoming units on your turn, but move your forces so that they are unlikely to be attacked on the AI turn.

A catapult takes 1 HP per attack, assuming they don't miss, you need 2 to red-line a reg, and 3 to red-line a vet. But they do miss, so build 4 or 5 catapults per offensive unit. (use the offensive unit to take out a red-lined unit) Use defenders to protect both, and use defenders to prevent incoming AI to move on highland (hills mountains) so that you can always attack them on flat land.

Use fast moving attackers (horseman) they may not move fast because they have to stay in the stack with catapults and defenders, but they retreat 50% of the time they lose a battle, so your losses will be smaller.

keep track of rivers, do not attack over a river if you can avoid it.

Keep track of how many units are defending an enemy city, you can expect the other cities to be defended about the same, so you can calculate how many units you need to take them for sure. (But expect 1.5 times the defenses in their capital)

Do not gamble make sure you will take the city you targeted when you decide to go for it. And make sure the AI will not be able to take any of your cities.

Leader-fish, and if you are lucky enough to get an early leader, rush the Pyramids. other wonders worth rushing are leo's and Sun Tzu's.
And of course, rush the FP, and maybe even a palace replacement to shift your core to a more favorable area.
Especially if you followed my advice and you didn't build many improvements in your early cities, besides barracks and one or two granaries, this palace shift isn't costly.
All other wonders are not worth getting. The Great lib is best captured.

Tip for the day: the Greek UU is one of the best for AW games, especially for the early AI harassment tactic. The AI will often not attack them, and not ever be able to send workers to improve their land.
 
Wow, thank you. this is the stuff I needed to read. will keep it nearby. Really appreciate you taking the time to do this for me.
 
It might be worth seeing if you can play in an AW sucession game - I'm sure that there are loads of people there willing to teach.
 
you can try and read the older SG's lead by handy, you can learn a lot from there, we managed to even beat the game on deity on a regular pangaea in the end...just check the older thread in the SG forum

and one word, AW is mighty fun :D
 
I have been reading the Monarchy Teaching game and boy I have learned a lot from that. (the link was posted above)... Mostly, I learned that those guys are very good.

I have been planning to read more SG's or similar to begin. I am prepared to get dead a lot while on the learning curve too, ...Based on what I read
 
I have been reading the Monarchy Teaching game and boy I have learned a lot from that. (the link was posted above)... Mostly, I learned that those guys are very good.

You mean GK2? That was a fantastic game to read, and I learned a lot from it too. Since then, I've played a few SG's with scoutsout and one with Sir Bugsy and learned a whole lot more from them, as well as from Bede, who was my first SG teacher. I highly recommend getting into one of the training day games if you want the best help you can get.

If anyone feels the need to make jokes about female leaders etc... fine go for it...
Nah! I'm female too, and none of the guys here ever does that kind of thing. This is a great board! :)
 
You mean GK2? That was a fantastic game to read, and I learned a lot from it too. Since then, I've played a few SG's with scoutsout and one with Sir Bugsy and learned a whole lot more from them, as well as from Bede, who was my first SG teacher. I highly recommend getting into one of the training day games if you want the best help you can get.

actually it was this one
It's CBob01 and it's here:

They did a Russian Always War game that was just amazing.


Nah! I'm female too, and none of the guys here ever does that kind of thing. This is a great board! :)

Yes, I have noticed this too.

I am not ready even for a training day yet. I want to play a few games where I conduct a war with more thought and precision before I submit myself for competition. but you can sure learn a lot from just the reading.
 
I do have to work my way into this idea as just plain war is not my strong suit but I did manage to acquit myself rather well in a baby kind of way on my Chieftain game.

In a game with 3 other civs on my continent (and roaming barbs) I have managed to reduce it to the Babs and myself. They are but a shadow of their former selves. (One of their cities even flipped... after they repaired all my pillaging.)

I managed to buy a couple of allies - one of which was the Babs against the Zulu btu I got tired of their messing about so I finished off the Zulu myself.

I also got Abe and his friend Monty to pretty please ask for peace after they declared an unwarranted war.

Because of reading the SG that I did, I had a clearer idea of where I was going and what I was doing. I am still too messy with the troops but I am getting better.

thank you to all who offered advice or links to help out. Still have a ways to go but I'm getting there.:cool:
 
Yes I used to lose on Regent :lol: I tried a 1 City Challenge not cultural victory on Regent once. Can you believe Honest Abe pounced all over me. It was a fun game but shorter than I would have liked.

I did decide yesterday that it was time to move up a level. Those Wonders were getting annoying.

I am going to go back and read that SG you played for training on Monarchy. The stuff youse guys remember and use... wow!

I do like my Persians for that early Immortal. They generally acquit themselves well. That is why I tried them in this game.
 
I have been playing as the Greeks and in the early game if you get into a war with someone, fortify a few stacks of Hoplites (or Knights) in the mountains next to your enemies stacks and then watch them commit suicide! The mountains are your best friend in war when you know how to use them. Also NEVER attack across a river. That will get your unit killed.
 
I have been playing as the Greeks and in the early game if you get into a war with someone, fortify a few stacks of Hoplites (or Knights) in the mountains next to your enemies stacks and then watch them commit suicide! The mountains are your best friend in war when you know how to use them. Also NEVER attack across a river. That will get your unit killed.

Very true:) If it goes that long, get a Mechanical infantry on a mountain with railroads connecting to it and watch the AI decide to obliterate itself. Once they even sent their defensive units a turn before I decided to go WWII on them and paradrop like crazy:D If you move a unit in to their territory, they decide to send their entire army after it. You can use this to your advantage by sending a small stack in their territory and once you see the AI coming for you, send in the much larger remainder of your army and rush them. Also, remember that rep doesn't matter because your always at war. And never let anyone build the UN.

Oh, and one more thing... TREATY-RAPE THEM!;) Make peace with them and get everything they have, and if possible, MA against someone. Before the turn ends, declare war and watch the AI squirm! If you manage to get MAs, even better, because they will still be at war:cool:
 
Oh, and one more thing... TREATY-RAPE THEM!;) Make peace with them and get everything they have, and if possible, MA against someone. Before the turn ends, declare war and watch the AI squirm! If you manage to get MAs, even better, because they will still be at war:cool:

Well, that might work for a war-intensive game, but AW (Always War), by its very nature, means no peace treaties or alliances EVER. You have to declare on every other civ in the game on the same turn you meet them...otherwise it's not "always" war.
 
I'm not in a always war game but the way things have been going it may as well be. The Hittites have been going spaztic crazy with the embassy diplomatic alliances and every other turn it seems they are signing a military alliance with somebody new and decaring war on somebody else. Then a few turns after the alliance is up, declaring war on THAT civ and signing an alliance witht he civ they just were at war against. It's madness!! This is constent world war going on here and for some reason the Hittites AI just seems to have a screw loose.
 
good for you! warlord will be tougher, but you should be able to handle it.

I recently tried a 1CC AW regent game as portugal. I had to tweak the map a little to make sure I had iron and ivory, but it was much fun :)
 
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