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AWD Standard Pangaea

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Stories & Tales' started by Own, May 30, 2009.

  1. Own

    Own Grasshoppah

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    C3C v1.22
    Map Parameters: Standard, 60% H2O, pangaea, wet, warm, 5 billion
    Civilization: Maya
    Opponents: Random (Rome, Arabia, England, The Byzantines, The Celts, Scandinavia, Babylon)
    Difficulty Level: Deity
    Variant: Always War--trade upon first contact for hard goods only, no embassies, can open diplo screen to spy on techs

    It's been a while since I've played Civ, but just recently I hooked up my old Civ computer again and started a game of AWD Standard Pan. These games usually end pretty quickly, so I didn't take any pictures or detailed notes from the beginning, as I didn't think I'd survive long enough for it to be interesting.

    Brief(ish) Summary:
    In 4000 BC, I settled on the spot and had my worker work the cow. I soon founded a second city that also had a cow nearby, and it became a four-turn settler factory while the capital produced military. Sometime soon, I made contact with Arabia and Rome on the same turn (or they might have been adjacent turns; I don't remember).

    My fourth city started a Great Library prebuild, and my research plan was Warrior Code to Alphabet to Writing to Math to Bronze Working to Iron Working to Literature. Arabia was attacking with archers and horses while Rome was attacking with just archers. Chichen Itza was a two turn Jav pump, and other cities were also contributing Javs and cats. It was pretty easy going against spears, archers, and horsies. I was glad to not see any Legionaries. When I researched IW, I found that iron had been just outside their borders for centuries :lol:. I cheerfully took it.

    Around this point I made contact with most of the other civs. I was pretty confident with swords and a huge slave army against two weak opponents. But then Literature got known in the AI world, and a wonder cascade beat me to the GL by a couple turns. My plan to conquer Arabia and Rome while hoarding cash was no longer possible. I had to continue to spend my entire economy on research. I self-researched through the rest of the Ancient Times, bee-lining to Monarchy and researching the rest in no particular order, since they were almost all useless (except Construction).

    I kept on fighting and even captured the Pyramids from Rome. Before I got to the MA, I finished off the Arabians and the Romans except for one city far away, but other enemies from the East (Btw that pic should be labeled "Eastern Front" not "Western Front") started attacking with greater and greater numbers. There is a semi choke (about 7 tiles thick IIRC) around where Rome was. I put all of my forces there (consisting of cats, swords, and Javs) to hold off the Eastern foes while I filled in the land from where Arabia was.

    When I had finished filling in the land, I still had made no progress past the choke. In fact, it just became even harder to not be overrun, let alone expand past it. I was defending against muskets and cavalry with MDIs, swords, Javs, and cats. I realized that there was no way to make any progress, as it required everything I had just to survive, and it was only getting more difficult. So I came up with a plan to research to knights and then to Military Tradition, and if I could survive that stretch, I would make some Cavalry armies and send them to capture the Great Library in Ninevah, a city literally on the other side of the world (but I didn't know where it was at the time). To make a very, very long and stressful story short, I did manage to survive to Chivalry and then to Military Tradition. Knights, trebs, and then cannons were very helpful additions along the way. Before MilTrad, I sent a knight army off to find Ninevah.

    After MilTrad, I got some leaders and made four cavalry armies which I sent to catch up with the knight army that had found Ninevah. Ninevah was captured, and it catapulted me to the industrial age. I got Steam Power, Electricity, Nationalism, Fascism, Espionage, and Communism from it. I had some money from stopping researching between MilTrad and capturing the GL, and I used it to plant a spy in England and steal RP. I had rubber but not coal, so I had to steal some from the Byzantines. With infantry, a large number of cavalry armies, railroads, and artillery, I found myself more able to expand beyond the choke, and that's where I am now.

    To be continued...

    Here are some pictures.
     

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  2. Own

    Own Grasshoppah

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    1140 AD

    At the start of this turn, I have 2 fully healed cavalry armies up in Byzantium razing some cities and 3 fully healed cavalry armies up in Babylon razing cities for cash, since Babylon has a 5 figure treasury. The 2 in Byzantium successfully raze a large city [4-0]. One of the three in Babylon razes Nimrud, giving us 710g [5-0]. The other waits for a Babylonian settler pair to establish a humongous bank that we can steal while the other goes after a recently settled one pop town. This is like taking candy from a baby--except the baby wants you to take it.

    Down at the front, I've got this recurring problem of redlining way more units than I have guys to kill with. I guess that's a good problem. But I would like to finish more of these guys off. Sometimes I will use pikemen that were too expensive to upgrade to kill redlined rifles. Anyway, I found a city by some bananas and coal, and I now have enough cities for another army, so I'm gonna start attacking with my elites again. After some vicious bombardment with tens upon tens of cats and trebs and 50 and change artillery, I have to decide which baddies I most want to kill. I start by using my five fully healed elite cavs and an elite infantry to knock off a few redlined gorillas [11-0]. No leader. I then use a vet cav to kill a random rifle, and he promotes [12-0]. There's no immediate threats, so I put my resources into planting combat settlers and taking out cities with my several fully healed cavalry armies near the front.

    I can't see what's in Stavangar, a Viking city, but only two "enemy units wounded" before the city losing pop from my artillery bombardment indicate that there's only one defender. So I have a cavalry army cross a mountain to attack, even though it is quite a waste of movement. Turns out that there are two musketmen defending, so I have to waste two cav armies' entire turns just to take it [14-0]. But it's probably worth it, because from Stavangar I can attack Augustrodum this turn and then Entremont. Without any delay, I use my artillery to redline all three rifles in Augustrodum and take it [17-0]. The flip risk is probably too high, so I will just keep it long enough to raze Entremont this turn.

    I clean up the trash around Augustrodurum [19-0]. One turn RR crews help set up the conquest of Entremont. Artillery fire, and all four rifles are redlined. Two armies successfully take it out [23-0]. More RRing allows us to attack Birka on the same turn. Artillery fire, and one cav army takes the two rifles [25-0]. I decide to not raze any of them yet, since they cannot flip this turn anyway. I connect the cities with RRs, and I cover everything up with infantries. Infantry have really been the MVP of this game. With no tanks, they act as armies in terms of protecting artillery and workers. I cash rush a bunch of settlers and upgrade some cannons that I stole from Entremont.

    Just as I am thinking the turn is over, I find three fully healed armies that have nothing to do, so I pick off a celtic settler pair and raze a nearby Babylonian city to pocket 750g [28-0]. But I still have that one fully healed army left and another one that I just discovered. So I use one to kill four random Bab rifles [32-0], and the other just chills to prepare for the big assault on Verulamium, a metro on a hill.

    Final tasks of this turn just include building some more RR in my specialist farms and cash rushing more settlers with the money I made. My plans for 1150 AD include combat settlers by Camulodunum and Newcastle up north. I don't have another settler available this turn, but six more will be produced next turn, so the turn after next I'll have a settler pair that will be able to take out Richborough, Verulamium, and Alesia (which has Ivory, a lux I don't have) all at once.

    For the game as a whole, my current plan has me doing some damage to every Civ at once. I've been conquering Viking towns and Celtic ones with my artillery and armies near the main front this turn. The two cav armies up in Byzantium have been busy razing their core for the past couple centuries, and they'll continue that so the Byz army will be so weak that there will continue to be no action in the Maya-Byzantium border. Armies up in Babylon have been razing Bab cities for cash and to weaken Babylon (once by far the most powerful AI) for a while now. And I'm sending combat settlers to England to start their conquest. I probably started this story way too late. It's really just mop-pushing at this point.
     

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  3. Own

    Own Grasshoppah

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    IBT- Collectively the weakest counter attack I've seen from the AIs all game. Babylon also founds a town out in the middle of nowhere which I will soon cheerfully take. The Vikings land a cav near Chichen Itza.

    1150 AD

    Kill the Viking cav [1-0]. Raze Tell Wilaya, the recently founded Bab city with a weird name, for 731g [2-0]. I also raze Khorsobad, another recently founded Bab city, for 776g [3-0]. Another army takes two rifles off Larsa, but a guerilla remains, so the army that just razed Tell Wilaya goes to help him out [5-0]. The armies in Byzantium just heal for this turn.

    I found Combat City near Newcastle and Combat City 2 near Camulodunum. I clean up the trash around the front, lose a cav to a redlined rifle but also get a leader [12-1]. The army is immediately loaded with 3 vet cavs and an elite*. More trash pickup [20-1]. Then a combat settler is sent into Celtic territory. I reorganize my infantry, artillery, and armies and set up attacks on Newcastle and Camulodunum. Three rifles and a longbow fall in Camulodunum, and the city is mine [24-1]. Newcastle falls after three riflemen and a guerilla go down [28-1]. I found two more towns. I also place a combat settler who will take out Oxford and York and another one near Copenhagen. I've got seven fully healed armies that I'm saving for next turn, as I anticipate that there will be a lot of fighting to do. Actually, I realize that I need to more workers to complete a very necessary RR, so I quickly capture Cambridge and capture a few nearby workers. The plan works [30-1].
     

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  4. Own

    Own Grasshoppah

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    IBT- A longbow comes out of the fog and kills a Jav [0-1]. Bad move on my part last turn, but I thought I would've had an extra infantry to cover him, but I needed every single one for another task. Otherwise, each AI civ comes with a pretty weak counterattack, if any at all.

    1160 AD

    Larsa is razed, netting us 860g [2-1]. I found all combat towns.Trash pickup around the front gives us a [13-1] kill count with mostly elite victories but no leaders. Time for the assault on Verulamium. Bombardment redlines all units and gets it down to pop 12. Two cavalry armies and a knight army take it, killing seven rifles and a longbow [21-1]. Alesia is attacked next. A cavalry army and a loose-leaf cav kill its three rifles and a cav [25-1]. Three rifles and four cav go down in Richborough, giving us the city [32-1]. Three rifles and a guerilla are Taken as we liberate Oxford from the evil English [36-1]. Three rifles and a guerilla fall in York [40-1]. Two rifles and a zerker are killed in Copenhagen, and the city is taken [43-1]. I reorganize everything and place a ton of combat settlers. Next turn, I plan to have every lux under my control and Leo's.
     

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  5. Own

    Own Grasshoppah

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    Here's a demonstration of how dumb the AI was:



    Notice the three Roman cities surrounding it. I beat them to it, and I didn't know it was there until I researched IW after WC, Alpha, Writing, Math, and BW.

    And finally, to make a medium-length and uninteresting story short, this happened several turns after we last picked off:



    I think I play civ for the sole purpose of being able to watch my color grow.





    All in all, a fun game. And I think I beat Mumpulus to conquest by 1 turn IIRC ;). Of course, he didn't do pre-declare trading, which I shamelessly did.
     

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  6. Mumpulus

    Mumpulus Chieftain

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    And did you have to chase settlers on boats? The "color growth" in my game was done in 1230. :p

    Anyway, congrats on the excellent win. ;)
     
  7. ThERat

    ThERat Chieftain

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    impressive win :goodjob:
     
  8. TheOverseer714

    TheOverseer714 Overseer

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    Hard to make it adequately challenging and also fun to boot. Especially if you are a superb player. Nice game here.
     
  9. Arexander

    Arexander The obvious lurker

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    I just wonder how nearly every one gets to modern age so fast and how they conquer the enemies in so little time... I have tried many ways but still can't figure it out... :(
     
  10. Own

    Own Grasshoppah

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    I didn't get to the modern age, just the industrial age. And I was only about 2 or 3 techs into the IA anyway. To get far ahead in tech, playing on a high difficulty level helps. This seems counterintuitive, but the stronger AIs will research techs for you that you can buy/pointy stick/Great Library/trade from them. Otherwise, getting techs quickly is all about commerce. Techs cost money, whether you research them yourself or trade for them, and the best way to get ahead is to get more commerce. Being in a republic, good micromanagement, building good infrastructure, having your cities grow, improving tiles and making sure that your cities are working as many improved tiles as possible are all good ways to make more commerce.

    You can't conquer enemies with ridiculous speed until rails and artillery. Rails allow you to move your units as much as you want, and artillery has extra range, which is a humongous help. Look at some of the pictures that I drew on. The dots represent where I place a "combat settler." These guys found towns that are solely for the purpose of giving me control of a few more tiles. When I have control of them, I can build railroads on them (if they're not there already) and shoot artillery from them. I built cities in places such that they would give me control of at least one tile within the artillery's range of the targeted city, so that I could blast the city from there. Basically, every turn I took out 5 or 6 cities from the combat settlers that I had put in place last turn, and then I placed some more combat settlers for next turn.
     
  11. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    I didn't have as much time to read this one as I'd have liked, but well done, Own!
     
  12. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    Maybe in an AW game. For a non-AW game...

    There exists no question that rails and artillery help. But, it's possible to conquer very fast earlier if you have a slew of armies at your disposal. As an example I'd suggest checking the Huge Sid game here via CRP Viewer. I don't know when she learned Steam Power, but I know she didn't even learn Electricity. From the notes she sent to Elear once, I *believe* she indicates that in her 2 Sid histogrphic games, she basically shut off research after Military Tradition.

    In my Deity standard conquest game (which started out as a pangea histogrphic game, so 60%), I didn't learn Steam Power until the 800s AD when I fought the Celts. Once I had rails, I conquered 19 Carthaginian cities in 3 or 4 turns with just armies. Of course, I had like 15-20 of them, but as I recall my cannons didn't do a whole lot. The trick lies in getting enough cash to cash-rush armies either every turn (via worker-army) or as close to every turn as possible, and probably also disconnecting-reconnecting before that (or at least that's what I did). In my game I banked as much cash as I could at the rate of 18 gold for 1 gpt, tried to get AIs to declare war on me for walking on my territory... thus getting their lump sumps for less gold effectively, I warred as a Republic, had plenty of markets (and later banks), (basically) shut research off after learning MT and had the Great Library before that, and got several large lump sums when I conquered the Byzantines. Half of that you can't do in an AW game.

    Rails can certainly help, but if you can position your armies near the front well, and get them out fast, it's possible to conquer fast... in a non-AW game.
     
  13. Own

    Own Grasshoppah

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    Yeah, I deliberately inserted "ridiculous" speed to try to make it clear that you can still conquer pretty quickly before rails and artillery.

    I don't think its being AW is as important as its being standard sized map. I didn't have the cities to support more than 20 armies even as I was cleaning up, and I didn't have the core to put cavalry in as many armies as some people have on huge games. Without 40-50 armies, I couldn't just faces rifles in cities without artillery, and I had a lot of units to clean up at the front, and I often needed armies to help with that, since I usually redlined everybody but just didn't have enough units to finish them off (I was so desperate I was attacking redlined knights with wounded pikemen when it was tactically necessary).

    In an AWD standard map, you probably face close to as many units in a deity huge regular game (not Sid, though), because the AIs are always focusing on military, and you have to face several at once as opposed to one at a time. But the human's productive capacity on standard maps is much, much lower, because of much greater corruption and less room for cities.
     
  14. metalypsis

    metalypsis Chieftain

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    What graphic modpack are you using? It looks neat :)
     
  15. Sparthage

    Sparthage Fighting Tyranny

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    Watercolor Terrain, I believe. If you want it, try checking out the Creation and Customization forum. I'll try to find the link for you.

    edit: Here's a link. But try not to bump dead threads next time, just send a PM.
     
  16. Ceoladir

    Ceoladir Come Fly With Me

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    :bump:
     

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