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Axis Invasion of America

Discussion in 'World History' started by silver 2039, Sep 2, 2006.

  1. silver 2039

    silver 2039 Chieftain

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    I found this when I was looking through wikipedia. The pln looks pretty formidable looks like it would eat lives by the bundle. Any thoughts?
     
  2. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

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    They didn't have the means for it. Yes, they could have built more ships (assuming Hitler dropped out of that whole Barbarossa idiocy, and Stalin took his sweet time gearing up for his own war), but by the time germany'd have enough ships at sea to field something remotely like the invasion fleet involved in Overlord, the USN would likely have had the Midways and Montanas rotating into active service.

    Even if they had, trying to attack the American mainland without first securing some sort of forward base (and Hawaii is far too remote for that) would have been suicidal. Having to get supplies to an invading army all the way across the Atlantic once the invasion had started (or all the way from Hawaii to America) would have been a nightmare.
     
  3. Gelion

    Gelion Captain

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    I could make such plans in 3 hours of hard work. In short:
    - Axis didn't have the manpower or the resources to pull something like this even if they didn't fight with Soviet Union
    - War of Axis Europe with USA could only be fought at sea and air until either side looses that war. Only then a land invasion could take place. Consider the supply lines and possibilites of counter attacks even.
    - Hitler had no interest in pissing off the United States just as France and UK had no interest in pissing off Hitler in 1939-1940. They wanted him to fight somewhere else. Hitler knew that.
    So no that plan if it was ever considered would have been completely useless and was probably of the type "what if Marsians invade USA" plan made by US government planners. However it might convince some Americans that Hitler was more of a badass and that he really threatened them (plan to invade Home territory! The horror!) Americans are not used to threats to their soil....
     
  4. Adler17

    Adler17 Prussian Feldmarschall

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    Such an invasion would have following prerequisites:

    1. Conquest of Russia, to have no other front in the East

    2. Conquest of (Northern) Africa, to have no open flank in the rear.

    3. Conquest of Arabia (and India) to have also no other flank there.

    4. Conquest of Britain, to have a base to alunch the attack.

    5. Building up of long range bomber forces and V weapons fired by Uboats and planes and ICBMs

    6. Building up of enough Naval forces. This includes about 20 more battleships and fleet carrier.

    7. Japanese conquest of the Pacific and Australia to conduct a second invasion in the west.

    These things must be given before an invasion could be conducted. So it is extremely impropable, to say the least. Also even if we say, the Axis were able to conquer Africa, Asia and Oceania as well, it would have lasted to build up new ships. However as now the resource short cut would not have existed, it would be possible to build such new ships. But to build a CV or BB and to introduce it into the fleet, it lasts about 4,5 years. So if we consider losses in that time, and delays and so on, it will have lasted even longer to have built such a fleet- 6- 8 years. Not to speak about enough landing and support vessels. In the meantime, the US would have not sit just there but have built forces on her own. That means even more ships to need and more ships to fight, even though the US would now have to be forced to fight alone at two fronts, they would have enough forces to repell an invasion. And with the US and German nuclear programs soon an invasion of the US and Europe would be considered to be impossible for either side. No, IF the Axis were able to conquer the old world, it wasn't possible to do that with the New one in time before the BOMB was ready. Another Cold War would have happened.

    Adler
     
  5. privatehudson

    privatehudson The Ultimate Badass

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    The Germans couldn't invade Britain despite our considerable weaknesses at the time, the chances of them ever developing the required forces to invade America were around nil. The fact that they might have briefly considered it doesn't suprise me though. Ridiculous flights of fancy were a specialty of the Nazi leadership where sweeping grandiose statements and rhetoric overcame such minor concepts as logistics, common sense and military logic.
     
  6. Rossiya

    Rossiya Fridge Magnet Porn

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    How the world would have changed though, if Germany had the power to invade America.
     
  7. sydhe

    sydhe King of Kongs

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    The Japanese forward base would have been southern Alaska. Not very practical, though.

    Memo to myself: Make sure you have some means of attack before declaring war.
     
  8. Cheezy the Wiz

    Cheezy the Wiz Socialist In A Hurry

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  9. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

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    This plan just goes to show how delusional the Nazi planners were. If they couldn't invade Britain and were ultimately defeated by the Soviet Union, which was in their continent, it is not hard to figure how an invasion of the US mainland would have turned out.
     
  10. Fox Mccloud

    Fox Mccloud Chieftain

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    To Invade America, the Germans would at least have to invade Britain, Greenland, and Iceland for bases. If they invaded Britain, the British were in perfect condition for defense. The Luftwaffe was unable to destroy the RAF, and the British would have air superiority. The British navy could make a metal wall through the British channel. Even if the Germans could somehow get troops to Britain, the British were ready for them. They would have lost thousands of soldiers before they got pass the beaches. Even when they occupied Britain, there would be lots of resistence. They would have been too weakened just by invading Britain and couldn't have ever taken America. The most the Germans could have done against the US was get aircraft carriers near the US, but that would be way too expensive.
     
  11. Cheezy the Wiz

    Cheezy the Wiz Socialist In A Hurry

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    The Luftwaffe was perfectly capable of eliminating the RAF. They got out from under the Nazi's finger because Hitler ordered a change from bombing RAF airfields and bases to the cities for psychological warfare, namely London.
    Also, planes flying from Greenland and Iceland could not have reached the US.
    I do agree that the Brits, depending on where the Germans landed, could have staged an effective defence and stagnated their advance.
     
  12. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    I believe also the Hitler thought britian could be negosiatated with.
    Which allowed British a short and needed breathing space in which she rearmed and prepared for the invasion.

    Sealion though was a very real possaiblility.
    Big problem was the lack of transportations I think planned for only 6 diviions and extemely little logistical support. Despite the Germans confiscating ships.
     
  13. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Chieftain

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    More of a what if plan for the Germans methinks. I wonder were a country with a population of 80 million would get the manpower to hold down an occupied Europe from England to the Urals assuming they won the war. I don't think the U.S.S.R at the height of its power had any concrete plans of a US invasion.
     
  14. privatehudson

    privatehudson The Ultimate Badass

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    As I said elsewhere I'm still not convinced Hitler took it that seriously. Had it been undertaken though it quite obviously would have been a disaster.
     
  15. Leifmk

    Leifmk Chieftain

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    No. The Luftwaffe did not have the range to strike properly at airfields in the Midlands or beyond, nor at the industrial heartland, so the RAF would always have safe fighter bases as well as unimpeded production. During the Battle of Britain the loss rates were about 2:1 in favour of the RAF and while they were for a while losing fighters quicker than they could build new ones production rates were increasing (and were higher than those of the Germans). Furthermore whenever a fighter plane was lost but the pilot survived, a RAF pilot could be returned to duty while a Luftwaffe pilot would end up in a POW camp, so the Germans were losing experienced pilots faster as well.
     
  16. Darth_Pugwash

    Darth_Pugwash wobble wobble

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    A German invasion - let alone capture - of America is pure fantasy. Even a loon like Hitler probably realised that (surely these plans were never seriously considered?:crazyeye:)
     
  17. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    They'd conquer Russia if they had that kind of power.
     
  18. Xanikk999

    Xanikk999 History junkie

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    America has much better land. Most of russia is a frigid wasteland honestly.
     
  19. .Shane.

    .Shane. Take it like a voter Retired Moderator

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    Its an interesting read, but the idea is pure folly.
     
  20. Riesstiu IV

    Riesstiu IV Chieftain

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    I hate to break it to you Zantac but America does have its fair share of wasteland. Most of the Southwest is an arid desert with a spattering of casinos and Mormon churhces (the latter being greater waste of time and money). Then there are the swamps of the Deep South and its only claim to fame seems to be the slacked jawed alligator wrestlers.

    There also seems to be a misconception that Russia is some deslotae wasteland filled with tundra. Ever heard of the Great Plain of Russia or the Valdai hills? Russia has more than one climatic zone.
     

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