1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Aztec!

Discussion in 'Strategy Section' started by crdvis16, Dec 18, 2019.

  1. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Emperor

    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1,072
    It's been a little while since I last posted a strategy discussion/guide so I wanted to create one for the civ I am currently playing- the Aztec!

    Their kit, copied from the wiki:

    Sacrificial Captives
    Receive Gold and Faith for each enemy Unit you kill (the amount of Gold and Faith earned is equal to 150% of either the defeated enemy Unit's Combat Strength or Ranged Combat Strength). When you complete a favorable Peace Treaty, a Golden Age begins.

    Jaguar, replaces the Warrior.

    Special traits:
    Has more Combat Strength (10 vs. 7). Obsoletes at Steel rather than Bronze Working.

    Special abilities:
    Starts with a promotion that grants this Unit a +33% Combat Strength boost when battling in Jungles or Forests. Starts with a promotion that heals this Unit 25 HP when it kills an enemy Unit. Starts with the Woodsman promotion.

    Floating Gardens, replaces the Water Mill.

    Special traits:
    Provides 3 Food (up from 2) and 2 Culture. +1 Food and +1 Production for every 4 Citizens in this City, and 10% Food in this City during Golden Ages. Each Lake Tile worked by this City provides +2 Food, and nearby River Tiles produce +1 Food.

    Common traits:
    Provides 3 Production. Requires this City to be adjacent to a Lake. Costs 1 Maintenance.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quick Kit Notes:

    -There is a minimum warscore or peace treaty deal that is required to get a golden age when agreeing to peace but I'm not exactly sure what it is. I believe I tried to peace at one point when my warscore was <25 and it did not trigger so my guess is that it is something like 50? I found that I usually had to take a city in the war in order to get the golden age though I imagine that with some effort you could kill/pillage your warscore high enough too.

    -You get an insta-golden age from conquering CSs. I didn't want to abuse this fact too much but I couldn't help myself when nearby CSs had the "conquer that other CS" quests.

    -All 3 promotions carry forward for the Jaguar

    -The floating gardens have no terrain requirement (despite the wiki having text saying they require an adjacent lake) so you can build them in every city.


    General Strategy:

    To me, this kit just screams to stack as much on-kill benefits as you can and then war as much as possible. You also have an incentive to peace out from wars once you gain enough of an upperhand in order to gain frequent golden ages. You can just re-DoW after the peace period is over or start a war with a different neighbor so that you are killing as frequently as possible for those instant yields.

    The sources of on-kill yields are:

    -Aztec UA (gold and faith)
    -God of War (faith)
    -Authority-Opener (culture)
    -Authority-Dominance (science)
    -Terracotta Army (culture)

    The floating gardens UB doesn't really play into this at all other than just being a really solid UB that helps you fight off distress and grow/build in your cities as you go wider and wider via conquest.

    My planned win condition is probably a relatively slow science victory. Towards the late game I'll attempt to militarily target civs that are otherwise going to beat me to diplo/culture/science wins and then win via science by default unless another win condition falls into my lap.

    Early Game:

    The Aztec early game is all about the Jaguar. It's ideal to go monument->Jaguar and just keep pumping Jaguars until you reach your initial unit cap. There's no need for an early shrine- you'll get your pantheon just from the faith on kill from your UA and you'll usually get it well before most other civs normally do. Jaguars can solo barbarians and barbarian camps pretty much continuously without having to stop to heal due to the 25HP on kill promotion. Being able to solo so well coupled with their movement bonuses in jungle/forest means you can spread your Jaguars out and quickly reach camps more efficiently than any other civ.

    The Jaguar's 10CS (only one less than a spearmen) means that you can start tributing CSs from very early on whereas other authority civs typically have to wait for spearmen to do so efficiently. Authority tributing is strong to begin with (maybe a little too strong when you get lucky with nearby CSs) but in the hands of the Aztec it can feel pretty broken at times. Heavy tributes for science can help you quickly tech toward Terracotta and a heavy tribute for production can act as a mini GE to build it ASAP. I pretty much spent the first 100ish turns hunting barbs and tributing every CS I could get to on my continent. Any CSs that were hesitant to give up their tribute were DoW'd and had their units killed for their instant yields and then tributed once they were weaker.

    My general build priorities in the early game were:

    #1- Military until hitting unit cap (~10+ Jaguars followed by horsemen/skirmishers/archers)

    #2- Buildings that provide unit cap for more units

    #3- More workers if I'm ever working an unimproved tile, More settlers if there are good nearby spots, then trade units until at trade unit cap

    #4- Shrines, monuments, councils/libraries

    #5- Anything else (graineries, etc)

    My priorities for tech order were:

    #1- unlock Terracotta as soon as I have the policy requirement met. This timing largely depends on how well my barbarian camp hunt is going and how well I'm tributing (especially culture CSs). Going the bottom half of the tech tree for Terracotta means that mine luxeries are probably ideal for Aztec since you will grab mining on the way.

    #2- Pottery for Settlers (probably unlocked before going all the way to Terracotta)

    #3- Military Theory and Construction for Barracks and Walls- gotta get that supply!

    #4- luxery improvement tech. Improving luxeries and selling spare ones can help avoid a situation where your unit maintenance puts you negative in GPT and kills your science.


    Religion:

    Pantheon- God of War, of course

    Founder- I went with Divine Inheritance (Holy City produces +20% of its yields during a Golden Age) for the obvious GA synergy, though it's usually more of a Tradition/Tall leaning founder. You could probably go with any Founder and do fine though, honestly.

    Followers- A lot of options here as well and you can't really go wrong with anything per se. I went with Mosques (+15% Culture in the City during Golden Ages) and then Veneration (was just the best choice left at that point I think). Some other notable followers that have some synergy with Aztec would be:

    Cathedrals (Farms, Pastures and Quarries near this City generate +1 Gold. Gain +10 Gold in the City when its borders expand, scaling with Era). +1 gold on a tile that might otherwise not have it means you really get +2 gold when in a golden age while the gold on city expand has synergy with Authority's Tribute and is very puppet-friendly.

    Orders (+3 Faith when a Unit defeats an enemy Unit in battle, scaling with Era. +15 XP for all Military units produced in the City, and the 'Morale' promotion for land Military units produced in this city). The faith on kill is fairly small in comparison to the UA and God of War but still has obvious synergy while the XP for military units is always nice.

    Enhancer-

    Nothing here that necessarily screams Aztec. Zealotry is nice- you'll likely be swimming in faith and can afford to spend a bunch on units to save you from having to produce them the old fashioned way. Iconography has +15% great person rates when in golden ages. Other than that your choice here might largely depend on if your neighbors founded or not and how much you want to bother spreading via missionaries.

    Reformation-

    Crusader Spirit (Land Units gain +10% Combat Strength vs Land Units in enemy lands, and an additional 10% versus Land Units of players that do not follow your Religion. Receive Gold and Culture when you conquer Cities) is usually the obvious conquering choice but many others could be nice depending on your choice of win condition.

    That's pretty much it! I'm about to enter the modern era in my current game. I'm slowly dominating my continent and will eventually need to invade the runaway Carthage on another continent in order to secure my win (she will otherwise get a culture victory it looks like).
     
  2. ilteroi

    ilteroi Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2006
    Messages:
    341
    is the golden age for conquering a city state intended or is that an artifact of killing the player? meaning, should it be considered as a bug that makes the aztecs too strong?
     
  3. ASCII Guy

    ASCII Guy Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2019
    Messages:
    76
    Gender:
    Male
    The instant golden age from a CS capture seems way too strong.
     
  4. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Emperor

    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1,072
    No idea if it's intended or not. I think it has some severe diplomatic repercussions though? Then again, if you're playing as Monte then diplomacy isn't much of a concern :lol:.
     
  5. Coffee Monopoly

    Coffee Monopoly Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2019
    Messages:
    101
    Gender:
    Male
    The threshold for "favourable peace deal" is 25 war score.
     
  6. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2005
    Messages:
    6,148
    Religion wise I think thrift is very good for Monty. I find that sometimes once you that initial surge of tributes and barbs camp kills start to wane down, your strong early military can run quite the deficit. Thrift helps keep you stabilized to extend your early advantage.
     
  7. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Messages:
    4,781
    Location:
    Beijing
    I believe it works the same as if you conquer the final city of a major civ. In both cases, a war has ended. I guess you had 100 war score (since you won in the biggest way possible).

    You also get a historic event for winning a war. I consider Aztec top tier and wouldn't mind in the golden age left, but even without killing CS it isn't hard to get an infinite golden age going.
     
  8. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Emperor

    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1,072
    A few updates:

    I just got a peace deal from America at exactly 25 warscore and it triggered a golden age so my best guess is that 25 is the magic number.

    Also, here's CrazyG's photojournal from a while ago that shows off the Aztec better than I could probably:

    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/aztec-write-up-photojournal-on-deity.634934/

    It was a different game and different civ back then I suppose (the faith on kill is much lower in the current version I think) but still relevant.

    Last- being a warmonger is tough! The warmonger ferver buff your opponents get is pretty brutal at times.
     
  9. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Emperor

    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1,072
    Yes- there are some early game traps you can run into of running a deficit and ruining your science if you aren't careful. Using religion to solve that issue can be a smart move. Selling luxes and prioritizing markets can help too if you start to see that coming.
     
  10. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    17,825
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Little Rock
    It is intended, yes. Whether or not it is too strong is up for discussion. The Aztecs gobbled up a few smaller independent states as part of their 'empire' in real life, feels appropriate to have CSs be a target.

    G
     
    CrazyG likes this.
  11. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Emperor

    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1,072
    If the Aztec are OP then it probably has more to do with how awesome the Jaguar is when used properly than anything else. That unit is such a strong engine for early faith and tributing that it warps the Aztec early game around it for the first 100ish turns. So much so that you can delay shrines a lot and still found a religion on deity. If anything deserved a change it would be to tone down the faith on kill UA a little so that you still need to build some early shrines in order to expect to found.

    Then again, faith bonuses are very binary. The faith is either very strong when you found or pretty crappy if you don't. The civs with faith bonuses are sort of all expected to fairly consistently found so you'd have to be very careful nerfing Aztec faith too much. I could see a nerf to the UA faith leading to AI Aztec not founding consistently.

    You could go a different route and change the UA to gold/food on kill (Aztec flower wars were used to get human sacrifices for good harvests I think?). They lose their religious lean but gain larger cities?

    I don't personally have a strong opinion on if the Aztec are OP or not, though. I can't tell from my current game if they are (if anything, my last game as polynesia was easier for whatever reason). The two CSs I've conquered so far haven't really made a huge impact as far as I can tell but I'm also not purposely targeting CSs for GAs. My sense is that the Aztec AI is just ok, probably weaker than some of the other warmongers if anything?
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2019
  12. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2005
    Messages:
    6,148
    The trick with Aztec is that a human can often play a very focused game with them and just clean house early on. Case in point, this thread actually inspired me to play an Aztec game. I found England when he was sending out his first settler. Killed the settler, pounced on the capital....suddenly I have not only taken a capital but I am now the only player on this entire continent. I was able to settle/conquer CS my way to 14 cities without much trouble.

    But on the other hand, depending on timing and distance a player might have spears and walls up before I get my foothold, in which case your pace slows way down. So its a bit RNG related. Also I don't think the AI knows how to play Monty at maximum efficiency. They play him well....but there is such a window of opportunity in that first 100 turns that if you are hyper focused you can make amazing gains.

    I agree with CrazyG that Monty is top tier if you play him right, I don't think he's necessarily above other top tier civs, and certainly not with the AI. I also don't think the golden age on CS change would fundamentally alter anything...its the simple fact that Monty can crush AIs at the time they are the weakest, and warfare always has a snowballing effect. The golden age is nice, but the sheer fact that I got a really nice city and piece of land is ultimately the real benefit.
     
    Mauro Mezzina and crdvis16 like this.

Share This Page