B01 - Arrogant Fools

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

It is now the eve of release for CivV and I thought it would be appropriate to do something nice and scary to start off the new craze: a brand new "cookbook" game.

Spoiler What is a cookbook? :

Shamelessly stolen from the series hosted by ChromiumL/Gumbolt, a cookbook game is a "4-balls, best ball" type of game where everyone plays a save for a fixed amount of turns, then we pause and discuss, pick the best one, and roll from there. Some of you may be familiar with the previous Emperor Cookbook games.

It means we get time to discuss the different strategies, explore options, and increase enormously our odds of getting that lucky save that enables us to survive.

On Deity.

Round 1 will be completely open but for a few settings. After that, we'll pick the best looking candidate each turn. Seeding a perfect-looking start and exploiting it might be necessary and as such is not discouraged at all.

Edited from the manual:



Please play this round and submit your report into this thread.

Standard series rules/etiquette (credit to others of course):

Spoiler :

Alpha: The quality of your report and discussion outweighs the quality of your play. We’re here to have fun, and, of course, winning is fun, but losing in style is preferable to a boring win. Losing a first game in style because it's bloody Deity is part of my definition for fun.

Bravo: Reports should be detailed, with plenty of screen shots and player commentary, explanations, musings, etc; an auto-log dump will not suffice. Shots of the demographic screens and overview shots of the empire are nice too, once in a while.

Charlie: Punctuality rocks! There might be a lot of traffic, there might not be, but the game will go on - stay on the boat.

Delta: Major game decisions (war/peace declarations, religion swaps, city placement, etc) will be to each his own during turnsets. If the save used for the round did something completely wrong and everyone invariably dies during the first 5 turns, I'd be open to trying another. Live and learn.

Echo: Being a better player does not give you the right to belittle anyone else or their play. Other people are going to disagree with you on major decisions; get used to the idea, and play nice. If not, take your ball and go home.

Foxtrot: Thread spam is good. Trash talking, poking fun, gentle ribbing, virtual noogies, and generally horsing around are all encouraged, but don’t be rude.

Golf: Automate sparingly.
1. Workers should never be automated.
2. Use of the “Emphasis” buttons is fine during your set; make SURE you turn it off afterwards.
3. Sending units on go-to routes that last beyond your set is not acceptable.

Hotel: NEVER fortify Great People. Is it so hard to push the spacebar 15 times??

India: Sign spamming is rude. Signs can be helpful reminders, but too many signs makes them easily ignored. Once a sign is no longer valid, delete it. [The only exception to this are city specialization signs.]

The goal of this specific SG is to explore Civ 5. So, check below for specific modifications to the above rules for this game:

Spoiler :

ONE: Odds are we'll lose. Many times over. We'll cheat death with the best ball system and we'll give the AI's a run for their money. That means communicating, sharing, discussing what strategies we think might work prior to a turnset and weighing how it went afterwards. Be open-minded, we're the friggin Enterprise NCC 1701-V.

TWO: Because of the above, be able to post something at least once a day, even if it is not your turn. Be ready to adopt new saves and adapt to different strategies. Working together will make this hellride fun.

IMPORTANT : Please use spoilers if you want to discuss opening strategies prior to starting the round.

At the end of your Round, please remember to name your save with your name, game and Round # & game date (i.e. "B01-Beorn-BC-1500.Civ5Save"). (And please don't forget to attach it to your Round report, either!).

========

Roster:

YOU! - contributor, voter - our most important fixture, the readers who follow the threads and play along.


Voting Rules:

Spoiler :

1. You may NOT vote on your own save (but you are encouraged to state the strengths and weaknesses of your save).
2. For your vote to count as winning save you are expected to have voted for 3 other saves where possible. There is an element of fair play expected from those that vote and tactical voting is not allowed.
3. Only those who have posted a round may vote (those who are shadowing are always encouraged to express their opinion!)
4. Please don't vote on a save that has voluntarily been removed from the running by the person who submitted it.
5. At the end of each round you can vote on 3 saves for first, second and third place. I believe that these votes should be made publicly in order to allow for as much discussion as possible. I strongly encourage you to explain why you are voting for a particular save. This is one of the best ways to learn, and that's what this game is all about! If you feel uncomfortable voting publicly, PM me with your vote.

After a couple days for voting and discussion a winner will be declared and we will move on to the next round using the winners save.

The first round will last until 2000 BC.

 

[Tarkhan]

This is an awesome concept for a "first game"

I wonder if beta testers will drop in and point out all the that'll inevitably be going around.

Good Luck!

 

[Corbeau]

Is there a setting to turn random events off? I've seen neither random events nor any settings regarding them, though I've disabled ruins (5's version of goodie huts).

 

[Gerurun]

Is there a setting to turn random events off? I've seen neither random events nor any settings regarding them, though I've disabled ruins (5's version of goodie huts).

They don't exist in Civ V.

 

[Corbeau]

Planning? Taking time to feel out the game? Bah! Full steam ahead! What's the worst that could happen?

Report:

Spoiler :

Prelude: The Plan

Diety. Ouch. I've never gotten up to winning Deity in any civ game. I'll be out-expanded, out-researched, out- ... well, everything. Probably even out-generaled, since Civ 5 is changing the mechanics of war so heavily. Synergistic tricks will be necessary for me to make even a moderately good showing.

I'm playing as France. The French unique units are mid-late game, but the French trait of +2 culture per city is decidedly aimed at the early-game. Specifically, the culture bonus allows for early social policy (and tile) development. Even more specifically, it allows for the quick development of Liberty and Citizenship, giving 50% and 25% discounts on settlers and workers, respectively. Getting these discounts immediately, and making do with as few military units as possible, should bridge at least part of the gap between my expansion rate and that of a Deity AI.

Retrospective: The Execution

It worked without a hitch. Almost. I think. With an initial build order of Worker -> Warrior -> Settler -> Worker -> Settler -> Worker, we have three workers, two additional cities, and reasonable tile development. We also seem to have a peaceful neighbor in Siam, and several nearby-but-not-adjacent warlike empires that we can play off against each other (Germany just went to war with Russia). We also have a ridiculous amount of Horses, some of which are being traded for gpt from Germany, and several luxury resources to keep our expansion stable.

Note also, in the screenshot below, how we have a long, extended thumb of territory reaching all the way to the Siamese border. All of that came from fast cultural border pops following the resource chain - it didn't cost a penny. I *really* like the French special trait.

Honestly, aside from playing on Deity, my only concern is the barbarians. While our cities are having a good time shooting at the barbs from safety, our mobile forces are insufficient to guarantee tile security. In fact, I think that I'm about to lose a pasture - though no worse. Horseback riding is due soon, and a few mounted units would do pretty well against anything but spearmen (which we can shoot up with archers/city garrisons first).

Logical future steps include pushing expansion as far as possible, then gearing up for an invasion of Siam. I have no idea how to actually accomplish the latter, aside from drowning them in Horses, but it seems like the type of strategic choice that I read about in high level Civ 4 threads.

Screenshots:

The French Empire:

Spoiler :

Demographics:

Spoiler :

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

My Civ 5 is too randomly buggy to get into this at the moment. Hopefully they'll find fixes for Nvidia graphic cards soon!

Nice expansion, that was fast. If I understand correctly, garrisoned troops would increase a city's combat/bombard strength, it might help. Either way, Honor and spears are in order.

 

[SevenSpirits]

The first round will last 50 turns. I have no idea whether this is appropriate or not but it will have to do. We'll discuss the next rounds' length when they come.

That's 50 turns regardless of game speed (which is up to the player)? How about scaling it instead, so comparisons between saves are easier?

 

[Whomp]

lurker's comment: Great idea B! My current system is not capable of handling Civ5 so unless I decide to get a new rig I'll have to watch from afar! It would be cool to see some of the old idiots pop in.

 

[Methos]

Is every turnset voted on, or is it just the starting turnset?

 

[Corbeau]

If it's anything like previous cookbooks, every turnset will be voted on.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

That's 50 turns regardless of game speed (which is up to the player)? How about scaling it instead, so comparisons between saves are easier?

2000BC it is.

lurker's comment: Great idea B! My current system is not capable of handling Civ5 so unless I decide to get a new rig I'll have to watch from afar! It would be cool to see some of the old idiots pop in.

It definitely would! Mine can do it, with a little latency, and with no more SoD's it should make a good difference with late games. A few CDZ'ers probably will hop in.

Is every turnset voted on, or is it just the starting turnset?

Every turnset. Optimum cheating.

With this being said and this morning's patch in, I can play and avoid crashes most of the time. Some leaders still give me trouble but I'll be fine for 50. Will play and post tomorrow.

 

[Methos]

I attempted to use rah's City State strategy, but I failed miserably. Before explaining my game, I'll post my introduction:

The Prince had grown up to be an imposing figure. He was one of the best combatants and he had a mind for military strategy like none other. He had spent almost his entire life amongst the tribes veteran fighters and it had been years since he'd set foot in a village. So when his father had called him back to the village to hand the tribe over to him, the Prince had walked into the village with his head held high, in his best tribal outfit, and he had looked like a minor god to his soon to be subjects. He'd fought savage beasts and fierce tribes, but nothing had prepared him for those doe-eyed females who seemed to toss their treasues at him.

A couple weeks later his father summoned him and asked, "Son, have you decided how best you are going to lead our people?"

"Yes father, I have. I am going to summon all of our tribesmen together and we are going to find a spot to settle as one large village. In this village we will grow to be mighty and all the world will sing our name." The father was very impressed at such a lofty claim. He immediately began considering all the possibilities of his son's plans and how it would effect the tribe in the future. The Prince on the other hand, was considering how such a plan would bring all those beautiful women to his door.

This game is an OCC game. The Prince doesn't wish to waste time running from city to city. Recall that he's a strategist.

With the influx of all the tribes the Prince realized he couldn't spend too long searching for a site to settle. They only had so much food and besides, all this searching was taking time away from all these beautiful women that desired his affections. So upon reaching this spot, the Prince decided to settle.

I went straight for Calendar and started work on Stonehenge immediately upon completing the research. I'm not sure how many turns I had left on Stonehenge when one of the AIs completed it, but it was less then ten. At this point I switched to the GL so I could grab Theology and gain access to the Medieval Patronage policy. As I feared, the AIs beat me to the Great Library by twelve turns.

At this point I quit, since I had focused too much on this path to try and change things. I had a great food location, but my lack of production was what hurt me. Still, I could have beat them to Stonehenge, but I doubt I'd have beat the AI to both Stonehenge and the Great Library.

Sorry, Beorn, but I don't have a submission to be voted on.

Edit: The settings I used were as instructed in the OP, plus OCC (One City Challenge), Inland Sea, and I did leave goody huts on.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Sounds like you need to start again

Production seems to be key in this game. I'm still getting pretty bad crashing but it's getting playable so I tried a few things: building +food stuff, +gold stuff, getting gold from wonder failures, buying out food and culture from AI's, mounted unit rushes. It works and it's production-centered more than food-centered.

I pushed it a little and went for deity on a duel islands map as Rham. By the time I had 4 elephants out, capturing Moscow was so easy it wasn't fun. Hopefully, giving the AI room will give it a fighting chance. Yes they hog wonders, no it won't matter. I know we'll win this SG.

Now let's get some more submissions in this week-end, boys! Anything Deity, Standard+ size with full AI and city-states is a go. 2000BC; builds/dates/comments as possible is always nice. I'll play mine over breakfast tomorrow.

 

[Methos]

Sounds like you need to start again

Alright then, I'll attempt it again later tonight.

Anything Deity, Standard+ size with full AI and city-states is a go. 2000BC; builds/dates/comments as possible is always nice. I'll play mine over breakfast tomorrow.

If you're having trouble with the game, are you sure you want to keep it at standard+?

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

I just tried standard, been at it for an hour, I managed to reload enough times to get through the diplo screens thus far - through to turn 27

It's not so much system problems as it is bugs with diplo screens. I tried pretty much everything graphics-related, I'll try and turn off all audio, see if that helps.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Alright, here we go! I disabled all sounds and it now runs like a charm. WMP music going up, Monty going down!

Alexander of the Greeks, known City-State hustler and leader of the fierce companion cavalry, ready to conquer the world!!

Strategy: get a few fast coins to bribe a maritime City-State, found 2-3 cities, tech to companion cavalry, conquer luxuries. Food shall be bought, coins shall be pillaged, this is a production game in a mountainous map.

Settings:

Spoiler :

So, legendary resources, North vs South map meaning the world is flat.

Athens BO: Scout, worker, settler, monument, fishing boat, worker (due in 2)

If I had had the choice I would have gone for another settler but I was strapped for happiness. My worker was tied up with a stray barb in the capital, couldn't get silver hooked up, and then I sent it to improve city #2. Athens wants Marble and that's what it will get, masonry is teched, just need to hook up the sheep first.

Sparta BO: Monument (due in 2)

Domestic View and Demographics:

Spoiler :

The city-states we've met are almost all militaristic.
Diplomatic view:

Spoiler :

There are two three maritimes and one cultured. The newly found maritime has gems and horses, the one we've allied just has gems. The other interesting ones have Dyes and Whales - although we can bust Tyre open with companion cavs and settle by the dyes, I think we'd be better off going a little further north, destroy/resettle Sidon and grab bananas+gold up there, 3 from bananas.

Spoiler :

Other interesting city hex:

I don't know whether anything we do diplomatically affects anything else whatsoever so I'll just assume that we can go about our business destroying everything in the world and be merry. Here's the northeast: notice Hiawata has captured a city-state already but it's been recaptured by Monty:

Spoiler :

And the southwest where we have an ally providing food and many more city-states that make a hell of a barbarian shield:

Spoiler :

Also, our scout will most likely die in the IBT from a barb spearman that appeared in the fog. A shame. With Bronze we can get a couple hoplites for protection and then amass catapults and cavalries for some real headbanging.

 

[Corbeau]

Playing Alex is probably a strong idea already; I've tried a game with him on an easier difficulty level and had an almost trivial time of early domination. Companion Cavalry are ridiculously strong.

That said, Pikemen would pose a significant problem and the Deity AI will probably tech to Civil Service pretty quickly. And soon after anyone gets to a level of military tech, the city-states seem to automatically upgrade. I've seen city-states with better military forces than the trailing AI civs.

 

[Arathorn]

I hope to have time tomorrow to play to 2000BC and get my turns up. I've been skimming, but it looks like my strategy of using Alex and winning by diplomacy (or domination) was already chosen once. I'm still going to go with it, though, because it was the best plan I had come up with.

Arathorn

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Great! Nice to have you on board. Btw I removed the time constraint in the first post - I had figured at first that if CFC got crowded to a halt when the game came up, this thread would get swarmed but it looks like we'll have some good casual fun with this SG and a handful of old timers

 

[Arathorn]

My submisssion (nearly all spoilered):

Spoiler :

I changed my mind. Defending city-states is to hard. We'll never keep enough alive to have any chance of winning an election.

How can we do this? Well, what are humans best at? WAR! So we'll run over them. What civ is best?

It essentially came down to Rome. Legions and ballistas will let us conquer cities relatively easily until riflemen. Nothing really threatens them. That should be a very long time, even against deity foes.

My first attempts were on epic speed. BUT the AI on epic speed has way too many turns where its military dwarfed mine and could never let me get out enough units to prevent their initial 8ish units overwhelm my capital. I eventually came down to this start:



It seemed reasonable. High water crushed people in too much. SO I went with regular water. Pangea to eliminate the need to cross bodies of water, for semi-obvious reasons.

The map it gave me looked like this:



That looked promising. I moved away from the coast (one due east) and settled there, beginning work on a scout. My plan was scout -> worker -> monument -> warrior (proto-legion) -> settler -> ? The intention was to make certain I had iron by settling my second city in range of Iron if Rome had none. The intermediary stuff was to help Rome build more stuff (to make it cheaper in other cities) and to give time to research to IW to discover Iron.

Meanwhile, I was exploring. I actually opened a couple ruins. The first was in 3720 BC and turned my warrior into a spearman, which makes him powerful against barbs, at least.

My scout wasn't so lucky. He didn't get any huts (did discover a city-state, though). Then he ran afoul of barbs and died.

About that time, 3080 BC, the AI completed its first wonder -- Stonehenge. No prayer. Back to old-style approach for me. Let the AI build wonders. I'll just take 'em. I made no attempt to build any wonders. Didn't even enter my consciousness.

Tech path was Mining -> Bronze Working -> Iron Working. Both legions and ballistas require iron, so discovering its location was of paramount importance. ASAP. But IW takes forever (like 22 turns) early. Oh well.

Some good news after 1000 years of suffering. We weren't the wrost civilization in everything! Hooray!



Shortly thereafter, a social policy popped. War game? Needing military all over for our value? HONOR! No-brainer. Took it, even though barb camps aren't exactly a major income source for us.

In 2840, Archery popped from my second ruins find. Cool beans. It's in the line for Mathematics, which is required for ballistas, which are real city-breakers. Ranged units are never bad things either.

About that time, barbs pestered Rome to the point where I had to hide the worker in the city for a while. Bombard and a returning warrior took care of them before they did more than annoy.

I continued to explore (got stuck for a while behind expanding borders, but there's a way around) and teching and working. Finished my settler and worked on a barracks while waiting the two turns for IW. It completed and I looked around.....



Ummm....what?!? What the...? Seriously?!? No iron anywhere around. No iron anywhere where I've explored. That's ... not right. Kinda buries my initial strategy thoughts, but I'll settle a good city site and hope I can find iron relatively soon. That's the plan, anyway.

So I take warrior code with my second social policy, so I have a great general to use for combat aiding. It also opens up the double experience policy. That will be a great aid for insta-healing, which is an awesome "promotion" much of the time.

Everything looks on plan for conquering the world in 2000 BC.



We have the fewest troops/military strength. Let's take on the world!

It's a plan, at least.

Now, off to read everybody else's attempts....

Arathorn