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[NFP] Babylon First Look

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Nov 12, 2020.

  1. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    While not easy to get, it'll be all worth it. :) :) :)
     
  2. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir Emperor

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    I also feel like Babylon can be a tall civ, since its science "output" is largely depend on Eurekas rather than the number of Rationalism cities.

    (Not to say the later is not important, if you are efficiency-obsessed and want to play Babylon for sub-200 win you still need that -50% output. But having just 4 or 5 cities and focusing on Eurekas can bring you to the end of the tech tree fairly easily, quicker access to Kilwa and Oxford will also help you go through the un-Eureka-able techs.)

    Edit: From this perspective, it seems like many of the Science civs are/can lean to a tall play (Korea, Scotland, Inca?, Maya, and now Babylon).
     
  3. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Deity

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    Just listed the very-powerful units that Babylon can get insanely early.

    Caravel:
    Sailing-> Celestral Navigation-> Cartography

    Crossbow/Pike & Shot:
    Archery->Machinery->Metal Casting

    Battleship/Spec Op:
    Mining->Apprenship->Industrialization->Refining->Plastics

    Biplane:
    Mining->Apprenship->Industrialization->Refining->Flight(via Da Vinci)


    When was your last time of using Caravel/Spec Op/ Pike & Shot/ Battleship/ Biplane? Those units are rarely used in normal games due to their terrible places and awful abilities on the tech tree, except for Babylon.

    Seems that those rarely-used units are the most powerful for a Babylon player.
     
  4. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    As I have said multiple times. Babylon was made for experienced Civ 6 players. New players can try it, but it's more suited for those with experience.
     
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  5. The Kingmaker

    The Kingmaker Alexander

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    Domination for conquest’s sake alone is uninteresting. But your opponent will have a much harder time winning a cultural victory if you’ve sacked half his cities and taken all his wonders.
     
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  6. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    Oh, man. You definitely want that Skies and Stars dedication.
     
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  7. almughavar

    almughavar Political commissar

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    Yeah I thought the exact same thing.
     
  8. Lonecat Nekophrodite

    Lonecat Nekophrodite King

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    1. Does it applies to civics as well?
    2. This a ability is very cheating! particularly Babylons can jump to Modern Era IMMEDIATELY from Renaissance.

    Their UU is actally reflects how they're the first to use Phalanx formation. Did it replaces swordsman (Available with Bronze Working) or warrior? because it is listed as 'melee' like Macedonian UU rather than Anticav.
    With this i'd think i'm right with 'Infantry' class.
     
  9. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 King

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    I just got 9 eurekas from one great scientist in the game I just finished, so yeah... I'll be looking for that one as Babylon lol.

    Civics are inspirations, not eurekas. This will only help Babylon with science.
     
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  10. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    Given their Science nerf, they aren't really skipping ahead. They just get techs for free. If you're not dedicated to micromanaging Eurekas, it's going to be pretty scattershot. And you probably won't be able to leverage them particularly well without also making a point to get the techs that unlock yield upgrades.
     
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  11. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir Emperor

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    Yeah, one need a deep understanding of Tech tree to play Babylon well. It is the ultimate "experienced player" civ.

    (Or checking the Tech tree every single turn for useful techs and their Eurekas)
     
  12. Casualty of war

    Casualty of war Prince

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    It's not that deep but you will want to minimize waste while researching. You're going to build a Trader so don't bother putting any work into Currency, you're going to kill 3 Barbarians so don't sweat Bronze Working, you are going to get Feudalism so don't put any Beakers into Stirrups. Irrigation will be effortless, as will Writing.

    We know you can Eureka-skip around the tech tree from the preview but I'm wondering if you can research springing off a skip tech or if you will have to go back and back fill before continuing on that line of the tree.
     
  13. Equilin

    Equilin Prince

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    From what I know from the Shuffle mode: no, you have to research prereq of that tech to continue researching stuffs next to it. Maori in that mode cannot just jump to Medieval if Shipbuilding is in the right section of Classical.
     
  14. CoconutTank

    CoconutTank Unapologetic Warmonger Supporter

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    Wow. The one civ that will get me to build a National Park.

    Wondering if it'll be possible to research Advanced Flight from Radio, without requiring all the other techs before Flight. Someone already charted a tech path for Flight earlier, but having to get Oil for 3 Biplanes will be a significant detour.
     
  15. _hero_

    _hero_ King

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    Best eureka rushes I can think of:

    Pike and Shot+Crossbows:
    Build Slinger> Kill barb with Slinger>Archery Eureka>upgrade Slinger and build 2 archers > Machinery> build 2 crossbows or upgrade if you have the gold

    Rangers when Survey policy card is still available:
    Research Mining>Build Quarry>Build Ancient Walls>Build Aqueduct>Build Niter Mine

    Muskets and Frigates:
    Research Mining>Kill 3 barbarians>Build Encampment>Build Quarry>Build Ancient Walls>Build Aqueduct>Build Armory>Build Niter Mine>Build 3 Musketmen and kill 1 unit with Musketman>

    Early Urban Defenses, Battleships, Infantry and high production:
    Build 3 Mines>Build 3 IZ and 3 workshops>Build 2 factories>Build Coal Mine>Build 2 coal power plants

    Early biplanes:
    Build 3 Mines>Build 3 IZ and 3 workshops>Build 2 factories>Build Rurh Valley>Build 2 coal power plants>Build Oil Well

    Civic based:
    Rush to a T2 government and you can build Coursers
    Rush to Feudalism, kill a unit with a knight and you can build Cavalry
    Rush to Mercantilism, Build 3 Privateers, unlock Submarines and the ability to build Power plants, build 2 for Machine Guns

    The Industrialization rush looks most appealing to me as it doesn't force you into a domination game the way the others do, but still allows for that option.

    The nice thing with these beelines is that you'll still pick up a many of the other techs without trying. This is contrasted with traditional tech beeline strategies that generally leave you completely neglecting half the tech tree.

    For Secret Societies mode, Sanguine Pact will be insane with your Vampires inheriting the combat strength of your strongest unit and you beelining units from 2-3 eras ahead with ease.
     
  16. The Kingmaker

    The Kingmaker Alexander

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    Random thought.

    I almost feel like Gilgamesh and Hammurabi should switch their diplo background matte paintings.

    Gilgamesh would have the ziggurat then, and Hammurabi would have the fancy lamassu statues.

    What do you think?
     
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  17. Francel

    Francel Warlord

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    I haven’t read every comment, and this has probably been pointed out.

    What I find most appealing currently is that they seem to have the best shot of grabbing the first great prophet, especially on deity. If you roll a start near a natural wonder, plus a free shrine, plus prayers, you might actually get choral music before the AI builds stonehenge.

    The second most appealing thing is that I am going to ignore science as much as possible, and not fall behind. Beyond the first district for free library and later astronomy eureka. Fast IZs great engineer will unlock printing.

    High faith output plus culture emphasis —> build great library and patronize great people. Huge science potential with very little attention paid to actual beakers.

    This gives flexibility for many approaches, but I think it nicely lends itself to how I like to play.

    i am sad no starting code of laws, no special monument with slots for great work of writing, no special wall... but from a pure gameplay perspective it’s intriguing on paper.
     
  18. King Rad

    King Rad Warlord

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    Not to repeat everything that's been said, I agree that this civ sounds super fun, and I will take that over blandly realistic any day. Also, the majority of the players of this game play SP, and I think they will thoroughly enjoy this civ. This is also the group that the developers have to ensure they continue to cater to since it's their biggest market. For MP, if this civ doesn't work, then the MP folks can ban it from their games.

    On another note, not much has been said about the free T1 building in the first newly constructed district of each type of specialty district. But I think this makes a lot of sense if the eureka giving the entire tech is going to be of any real benefit. Several people have noted the low production that Babylon will have when it discovers some of these techs. In order to take any advantage of these advanced techs, and the buildings/units/whatever that can be produced because of them, they will need to shift production from other areas - production that probably would have gone into producing these T1 buildings. To me, this looks like it might be the only way they will really be able to effectively produce any of the advanced units/etc. And even then, it will normally take them many more turns to produce these in the early eras than it would in the later eras normally associated with these units/etc. when they would have higher production in those eras compared to that of the ancient or classical eras. it's going to be fascinating to see how this all plays out.
     
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  19. Lonecat Nekophrodite

    Lonecat Nekophrodite King

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    Isn't that 'Infantry' & Frigates instead? (Replaceable parts got a boost by training 3 musketmen units)
     
  20. tedhebert

    tedhebert Emperor

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    I don't understand why people keep saying this. If you don't have the resource available for a unit, the previous one becomes available for production. I have built warrior countless times after researching Iron Working and not having Iron !
     

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